Author Topic: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist  (Read 2940 times)

fester30

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2012, 10:14:20 AM »
Once a claim is made, however, I don't necessarily believe the burden of proof is on the claimant.  I think it depends upon how much others care about the topic. 

I have to disagree with that.  I think anyone who goes so far as to make a claim is the one who needs to back it up or withdraw it.  Otherwise you're just asking other people to do your work for you and that right there would make me suspect the claims value.

The burden of proof is on whomever cares enough about the claim to introduce it into the realm of science vs. non science.  I don't think it's that black and white.  Sometimes claims come about and even gain popularity that have no scientific basis, such as attacks to climate change theory.  If scientists who know that ignoring climate change could be disasterous just stay silent against those who claim climate change isn't happening, then they risk the public and policy makers also ignoring climate change.  Or how about the claim about a particle traveling faster than light?  If we just put the burden of proof on the claimant, he may offer what he says is proof, and then we'd just accept it, instead of reproducing the experiments to see if we get the same result.

BooksCatsEtc

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2012, 05:22:16 PM »
The burden of proof is on whomever cares enough about the claim to introduce it into the realm of science vs. non science.  I don't think it's that black and white.  Sometimes claims come about and even gain popularity that have no scientific basis, such as attacks to climate change theory.  If scientists who know that ignoring climate change could be disasterous just stay silent against those who claim climate change isn't happening, then they risk the public and policy makers also ignoring climate change.  Or how about the claim about a particle traveling faster than light?  If we just put the burden of proof on the claimant, he may offer what he says is proof, and then we'd just accept it, instead of reproducing the experiments to see if we get the same result.

But isn't that part of confirming the claim -- other people testing it and questionning it and trying to find flaws or get different results?  I don't see that putting the burden of proof on the claimant is going to change that.  Testing and disputing is still going to happen but that doesn't relieve the original claimant of presenting the evidence for why he's saying "this is a fact".
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2012, 06:21:22 PM »
By saying "this is a fact", the person making the claim is saying that they've found the unicorn. The burden is on them to prove that they did, not on someone else to prove that they didn't.
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Sweetdeath

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2012, 11:02:41 PM »
The problem with Unicorns is that you need to be a virgin, preferable female and adolescent, in order to find one. This may well explain the lack of reliable Unicorn sightings. Now, the true test for finding imaginary creatures is Dragons. Of course if you find one you me wind up being invited to lunch.
King Arthur (or..prince back in season 1) was able to see unicorns.

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markmcdaniel

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2012, 11:24:23 PM »
The problem with Unicorns is that you need to be a virgin, preferable female and adolescent, in order to find one. This may well explain the lack of reliable Unicorn sightings. Now, the true test for finding imaginary creatures is Dragons. Of course if you find one you me wind up being invited to lunch.
King Arthur (or..prince back in season 1) was able to see unicorns.

And you guys can see me...right? Right?   >:(
You and King Arthur are the exceptions that prove the rule.
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markmcdaniel

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2012, 11:30:38 PM »
By saying "this is a fact", the person making the claim is saying that they've found the unicorn. The burden is on them to prove that they did, not on someone else to prove that they didn't.
You are correct in saying that the discoverer is responsible for providing the evidence that constitutes their proof. But, it is the responsibility to confirm the validity of this proof.
It appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against Christianity and theism produce hardly any effect on the public; and freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men's minds which follows from the advance of science - Charles Darwin

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the object of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a god, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. - Albert Einstein

Religion is a by product of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity. - Arther C. Clarke

Faith means not wanting to know what is true. - Friedrich Nietzsche

fester30

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2012, 12:38:36 AM »
I just think it's lazy and potentially dangerous to dismiss claims because the claimant has not presented sufficient evidence, especially when a claim can be debunked.  You never know what kind of following that claimant can build who might believe his nonsense. 

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2012, 01:16:26 AM »
You and King Arthur are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Exceptions don't prove any rules - they are, after all, exceptions.

And Who was you talking to? There is no-one there!  ???


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Stevil

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2012, 02:18:50 AM »
I just think it's lazy and potentially dangerous to dismiss claims because the claimant has not presented sufficient evidence
You can't investigate all claims people make, there are just way too many. Certainly hard to investigate something that is supposedly unobservable.

mp29

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2012, 10:00:30 AM »
 This seems like quite a stretch to say those bones are his. However; his bones may be out there somewhere. John The Baptist was probably a real person. He's mentioned in Jewish Antiquities by Josephus, though the reason for his execution differs from Biblical accounts.

Sweetdeath

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Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2012, 10:22:21 AM »
You and King Arthur are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Exceptions don't prove any rules - they are, after all, exceptions.

And Who was you talking to? There is no-one there!  ???


 ;D


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Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

“I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn’t mend our wounds.