Deeper into the Trump Abyss.

[Arturo]

I agree Gloucester, it does look like a guy trying to cover his tracks.

[Dave]

Well, looks like Scaramucci is keeping to te Trump Shite House tradition, calling other senior members names and maintaining the usual dysfunction.

Scaramucci attacks Bannon and calls Priebus 'fucking paranoid schizophrenic'
Extraordinary tirade raises prospect of all-out civil war at the White House

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/27/anthony-scaramucci-white-house-reince-priebus-steve-bannon

[Asmodean]

..!

Queen? Yes? Did The Asmo get a musical reference? He DID, did He not?! 

*Murder a small child for arms and legs*

*Sometime later*

[Dave]

..!

Queen? Yes? Did The Asmo get a musical reference? He DID, did He not?! 

*Murder a small child for arms and legs*

*Sometime later*

He did.

[Davin]

Man, I wish everyone read this.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/bill-browders-testimony-to-the-senate-judiciary-committee/534864/

Putin was furious. Looking for ways to retaliate against American interests, he settled on the most sadistic and evil option of all: banning the adoption of Russian orphans by American families.

This was particularly heinous because of the effect it had on the orphans. Russia did not allow the adoption of healthy children, just sick ones. In spite of this, American families came with big hearts and open arms, taking in children with HIV, Down syndrome, Spina Bifida and other serious ailments. They brought them to America, nursed them, cared for them and loved them. Since the Russian orphanage system did not have the resources to look after these children, many of those unlucky enough to remain in Russia would die before their 18th birthday. In practical terms, this meant that Vladimir Putin sentenced his own, most vulnerable and sick Russian orphans to death in order to protect corrupt officials in his regime.

Why did Vladimir Putin take such a drastic and malicious step?

For two reasons. First, since 2012 it's emerged that Vladimir Putin was a beneficiary of the stolen $230 million that Sergei Magnitsky exposed. Recent revelations from the Panama Papers have shown that Putin's closest childhood friend, Sergei Roldugin, a famous cellist, received $2 billion of funds from Russian oligarchs and the Russian state. It's commonly understood that Mr. Roldugin received this money as an agent of Vladimir Putin. Information from the Panama Papers also links some money from the crime that Sergei Magnitsky discovered and exposed to Sergei Roldugin. Based on the language of the Magnitsky Act, this would make Putin personally subject to Magnitsky sanctions.

When they say they talked about "orphans"... fuck, what a bunch of assholes.

And why have I heard so little about the Magnitsky Act from major news outlets?

[Asmodean]

From what I understand that was not accomplished through a presidential decree. While a member of the party Putin is a member of (I'm not sure if he leads it or not and... Going home. Too lazy to look it up right now) proposed the law, it met with negligible opposition.

So yeah... Putin is not synonymous with Russia or the Russian government. While similar to one in some ways, the guy is not a dictator.

When it comes to the Magnitsky act, I think it may have been because all in all, it was not major news. Sanctions come and go, and murder is only sexy when done in sexy ways. This actually goes to my rant somewhere else about the media and reporting and money and egos and what have you.

[Arturo]

I see that there might be a very clear motive in getting a brash idiot like Tronald Dump and others like him elected. Not only would he be the perfect puppet, but he would have (and does) have everyone's focus on domestic affairs while Russia steps up and does whatever it wants.

From what I understand that was not accomplished through a presidential decree. While a member of the party Putin is a member of (I'm not sure if he leads it or not and... Going home. Too lazy to look it up right now) proposed the law, it met with negligible opposition.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean here. Let me ask fir what I need cleared up.
In what law are you refering to? And what was "accomplished?" And which President do you mean?

[Asmodean]

The orphans thing. President Putin of Russian Federation.

I think Putin's involvement in micromanaging this bullshit issue may have been something like this;

Mr. Putin: "Hey, unnamed henchman, we need to respond to this sanction situation. Plan some scenarios oh, and don't fuck over any one important."

Some time later:

Unnamed henchman: "Orphans, mr. president. Orphans"

Mr. Putin: "Orphans... Yes. Make it happen."

Some time later:

The Federal govt. of Russia: "Meh... Why not."

Putin has his empire to run. I wouldn't pin something as insignificant to the grand scheme of things as disabled kids needing parents on him. Russia doesn't use much money or put much effort of other kinds into those kids. To their government, they may well be someone of no consequence to screw the fuck over as a part of some symbolic political gesture. Doesn't need a president to call that a plan.

[Davin]

I am more concerned with trying to play off the collusion to remove sanctions that were put in place because of corruption in the Russian government that goes all the way to Putin, as talking about orphans. It takes a special kind of asshole.

[Asmodean]

Oh! Yes, well...

Do you think sanctions were the primary objective though? Seems a bit... Small, doesn't it? Compared with the new reality this whole situation is presenting?

[Davin]

I think it's as Browder says, that Putin and the oligarchs want to be able to do whatever they want in their country without any consequences outside of it (or even inside of it). Since they have so much money in other countries, this is a pretty big consequence. And Putin and his oligarchs (band name?) want to fix that. I doubt that removing the sanctions is the only thing they want, but I'm pretty sure it is one thing they really want.

Now I already know you don't like that kind of thing (other countries meddling with the affairs of other countries).  I doubt we'll be able to bridge that so I'm too interested in going into it. But the basics are that Russia invites foreign investors, which opens up those foreigner investors to have some say in things that happen.

[Dave]

From what I can remember of the history of late Tsarist Russia there are similar characristics to the then social structure - just swap the Boyars for the oligarchs. OK, every country has a "them and us" structure but that in Russia has an origin that seems embedded in the national personality, inescapable even by revolution.

It was still there after the October revolution, just with different people at the top. I think Gorbachov came closest to democratising and de-corrupting the system - which is why they tried to overthrow him, even the armed forces (like do many around the world now) had their fingers in all kinds of pies.

[Arturo]

I may be wrong but....I think that America had personal involvement at the time to provoke their involvement wouldn't they? I thought that they killed someone who was American orrr...?

I don't know but it seemed to provoke Putin to expose some level of sleeper cells that are here in the USA and how corrupt the system is by foreign states.

[Dave]

I may be wrong but....I think that America had personal involvement at the time to provoke their involvement wouldn't they? I thought that they killed someone who was American orrr...?

I don't know but it seemed to provoke Putin to expose some level of sleeper cells that are here in the USA and how corrupt the system is by foreign states.

Sorry, Arturo, I have lost the context here. At which time? Are we talking sanctions? Orphans? Oligarchs? Disconnection between governance and personal gain? Or what?

[Arturo]

I may be wrong but....I think that America had personal involvement at the time to provoke their involvement wouldn't they? I thought that they killed someone who was American orrr...?

I don't know but it seemed to provoke Putin to expose some level of sleeper cells that are here in the USA and how corrupt the system is by foreign states.

Sorry, Arturo, I have lost the context here. At which time? Are we talking sanctions? Orphans? Oligarchs? Disconnection between governance and personal gain? Or what?

I mean the USA had personal involvement to provoke the sanctions. And that the sanctions provoked Putin to expose the corruption.