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Your conversion to atheism

Started by xXxWashburnxXx, January 26, 2012, 11:58:22 PM

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xXxWashburnxXx

I'm back. I went and thought about who I was, what I did and who I am now, how I've changed, what you guys said and I'm feeling less "to blame" now. I told one of my friends about my newfound atheism and while he wasn't too angry, he wasn't happy either. We had a short conversation about how I was going to hell until I told him I didn't believe in hell and he saw that his threats of eternal hellfire and damnation didn't affect me so he let it go. He still goes to church but only because his parents force him to. I haven't been contacted by any members of the church so I don't think he sees it as a major "problem" that should be seen shared with the church.
Evolution is JUST a theory. Ya know, like gravity!

Amicale

Quote from: xXxWashburnxXx on February 23, 2012, 11:06:08 PM
I'm back. I went and thought about who I was, what I did and who I am now, how I've changed, what you guys said and I'm feeling less "to blame" now. I told one of my friends about my newfound atheism and while he wasn't too angry, he wasn't happy either. We had a short conversation about how I was going to hell until I told him I didn't believe in hell and he saw that his threats of eternal hellfire and damnation didn't affect me so he let it go. He still goes to church but only because his parents force him to. I haven't been contacted by any members of the church so I don't think he sees it as a major "problem" that should be seen shared with the church.


Washburn, good to see you, and glad you're back. I'm glad you decided to have that conversation with your friend. When you think about it, though, if your friend expects you to accept him just as he is beliefs in God and all, then you have the right to expect him to accept you just as you are, whether you believe or not. A friend who tries to coerce you over to their side or tries to get a larger group (ie, a church) to sway your mind and drag you back wouldn't be acting like a friend... so, it's a good thing that so far, he's wisely kept quiet and let you just sort your ideas out for yourself, as you should be able to.

You're going to run into a lot of "friends" over the years whose friendship will only be conditional on whether or not you agree with them. Those folks won't be friends, and those relationships will fall apart. After I realized I was no longer Christian, then no longer a theist at all, I did lose some people who I thought were friends -- it turns out though, that they were more interested in needing me to affirm their beliefs than they were interested in just knowing me, person to person. Such is life, I guess. I'm glad that right now, the group of people I have in my life who I trust and love is a smaller group, but every person in it relates to me as a person, and not as a target of possible conversion/in need of being saved.

My wish and hope for you is that as time goes on and you do speak to more people about your ideas and your nonbelief, you find similar folks. They don't all have to be atheists or skeptics, but they do all have to be willing to respect you just as you are. There's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing about you that needs to be saved. You're just you. :) Congrats on being able to see that, and on being able to change your views and to reject what you used to believe that you've come to realize isn't right for you. That takes guts. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

xXxWashburnxXx

I didn't expect him to have much of a problem since he's been my best friend almost since birth. He himself is a moderate christian, and like I said only goes to church because his parents force him.
Evolution is JUST a theory. Ya know, like gravity!

Amicale

Quote from: xXxWashburnxXx on February 24, 2012, 12:03:55 AM
I didn't expect him to have much of a problem since he's been my best friend almost since birth. He himself is a moderate christian, and like I said only goes to church because his parents force him.

OK, cool. Yeah, there are more than a couple moderate, easygoing liberal Christians I get along well with -- I respect that they hold beliefs, and I'm happy that they have no problem with my position either. Most people who only go to church because family makes them go won't stay going once they're adults, anyhow. They might hang onto some of the beliefs, but if church isn't their thing, then it isn't their thing.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Ivan Tudor C McHock

Quote from: orangemoon on January 27, 2012, 10:29:33 AM
I'm not actually converted yet... lol.

I made an introduction post some months ago and got sidetracked by life, but I'm back and I just want to be apart of a community that is sane. I think that I'm in the agnostic realm but I keep asking myself why I'm scared to just go for it and completely be atheist......

You're already there, orangemoon. As an agnostic, your answer to the question "do you believe in a god?" is not "yes". That makes you an atheist. Welcome.  :)
Faith = 1/I.Q.

Asherah

#50
I was actually raised in a cult. (When I say "cult", I mean a small group of people adhering to a set of beliefs that are not mainstream to the culture.) My dad and bro left the cult when I was about 7 years old. But, my mom and I stayed. Needless to say, my parents divorced. My dad started going to church and taking me on the weekends that he had me. I started seeing the huge differences in what the church believed and what my mom and I believed. I started seeing how crazy the cult was (as if Christianity wasn't any crazier, but it seemed normal at the time). So, I de-converted from the cult and went to live with my dad when I was 12. I was very disillusioned by the cult. We thought we were special and had the truth. But, we were just delusional. But, being as young as I was, I just assumed that Christianity was true because most people believed it.

Well, after getting my Biochemistry degree in my twenties, I started relying way more in my intellect than ever before. I just started doubting my faith. I was scared......soooo scared to think about it. I would wake up at night in a panic, afraid of going to Hell. It was extremely difficult finally facing my doubts. One of the first things I had to do was entertain the idea that Hell wasn't real. Then, that really opened the flood gates. Once I accepted Hell might not be real, I was able to really think freely. I went on a five year roller coaster ride oscillating from belief, to disbelief, and back and forth. I had reasons for both sides.

Then, one day, I just stopped believing. I think the big moment for me was realizing that the things written in the Bible don't happen in real life. People aren't born of virgins, turn water to wine, walk on water, rise from the dead, and fly up into the air to meet god. In addition, I asked god to levitate the chair in my living room....and, He didn't... ;D He's not there. I also, just for good measure, asked God to have someone tell me what I'm thinking. I thought up something random - the Pythagorean Theorem. I thought that if just one person at church could have a prophecy for me that they would say "God told me to tell you that you having been thinking of the Pythagorean Theorem." I would totally believe...well, he may have to  levitate the chair too  :-\ But, anyways, god consistently fails me. Therefore, he isn't there.
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Amicale

Asherah, thank you for sharing that -- it really sounds like you've had quite the journey out of theism, first the cult, and then Christianity itself. If you've ever got some spare time, I'd suggest you download Rich & Deanna Joy Lyons' podcast, 'Living After Faith'. Rich was a pastor in a cult-like church for several years, and after he came out of it he suffered PTSD big time. It took a long, long while for him to get his life sorted out, but his journey out was incredible and well worth it.

I understand the feeling of trying to see if God's there by asking for silly little things that would 'prove' his existence to you, like having someone tell you what you're thinking. Just something small, and personal, that would give you reason to suspect God might actually be listening.

I know after coming out of Christianity, I was haunted by it for a while. By that, I mean that thinking like a Christian, thinking like a theist even, was so ingrained in my head that thoughts would rise unbidden for a long time. I'd read something, and the theist argument for or against it would pop up in my mind, even though I no longer believed it to be true -- it's just that you can take someone out of the church, but you can't as easily take the church out of someone, I guess. Even if you really, REALLY want to. And I wanted to. I wanted the theistic thinking out of my head, because it was driving me nuts for a good long while. Literally.

It reminds me of an old poem that's always described the feeling very well.

William Hughes Mearns is the poet.

    Yesterday upon the stair
    I met a man who wasn't there
    He wasn't there again today
    Oh, how I wish he'd go away

    When I came home last night at three
    The man was waiting there for me
    But when I looked around the hall
    I couldn't see him there at all!
    Go away, go away, don't you come back any more!
    Go away, go away, and please don't slam the door

    Last night I saw upon the stair
    A little man who wasn't there
    He wasn't there again today
    Oh, how I wish he'd go away

        "Antigonish" (1899)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Asherah

Hi Amicale,

Thanks for the empathetic response. I will look into reading the book you recommended. It would be helpful to hear someone elses experience. I've never thought about PTSD happening after leaving a cult, but it makes sense.

It is so hard to get it out of my head, too. And, I want it gone!! Everyone around me is Christian, so I hear the mindset quite frequently, But, I'm starting to notice that I'm having a theistic mind set less and less. And, the less I have one, the easier it is to see the faulty thinking in religious people. It's extremely difficult to notice any of it when you are "in it".

Nice poem. Thanks  :)
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Firebird

Quote from: Asherah on March 16, 2012, 03:48:25 AM
I was actually raised in a cult. (When I say "cult", I mean a small group of people adhering to a set of beliefs that are not mainstream to the culture.) My dad and bro left the cult when I was about 7 years old. But, my mom and I stayed. Needless to say, my parents divorced. My dad started going to church and taking me on the weekends that he had me. I started seeing the huge differences in what the church believed and what my mom and I believed. I started seeing how crazy the cult was (as if Christianity wasn't any crazier, but it seemed normal at the time). So, I de-converted from the cult and went to live with my dad when I was 12. I was very disillusioned by the cult. We thought we were special and had the truth. But, we were just delusional. But, being as young as I was, I just assumed that Christianity was true because most people believed it.

Well, after getting my Biochemistry degree in my twenties, I started relying way more in my intellect than ever before. I just started doubting my faith. I was scared......soooo scared to think about it. I would wake up at night in a panic, afraid of going to Hell. It was extremely difficult finally facing my doubts. One of the first things I had to do was entertain the idea that Hell wasn't real. Then, that really opened the flood gates. Once I accepted Hell might not be real, I was able to really think freely. I went on a five year roller coaster ride oscillating from belief, to disbelief, and back and forth. I had reasons for both sides.

Then, one day, I just stopped believing. I think the big moment for me was realizing that the things written in the Bible don't happen in real life. People aren't born of virgins, turn water to wine, walk on water, rise from the dead, and fly up into the air to meet god. In addition, I asked god to levitate the chair in my living room....and, He didn't... ;D He's not there. I also, just for good measure, asked God to have someone tell me what I'm thinking. I thought up something random - the Pythagorean Theorem. I thought that if just one person at church could have a prophecy for me that they would say "God told me to tell you that you having been thinking of the Pythagorean Theorem." I would totally believe...well, he may have to  levitate the chair too  :-\ But, anyways, god consistently fails me. Therefore, he isn't there.

Wow, you've had quite the journey. I'm impressed.
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

DeterminedJuliet

Quote from: Asherah on March 16, 2012, 03:48:25 AM
Then, one day, I just stopped believing. I think the big moment for me was realizing that the things written in the Bible don't happen in real life. People aren't born of virgins, turn water to wine, walk on water, rise from the dead, and fly up into the air to meet god. In addition, I asked god to levitate the chair in my living room....and, He didn't... ;D He's not there. I also, just for good measure, asked God to have someone tell me what I'm thinking. I thought up something random - the Pythagorean Theorem. I thought that if just one person at church could have a prophecy for me that they would say "God told me to tell you that you having been thinking of the Pythagorean Theorem." I would totally believe...well, he may have to  levitate the chair too 

When I was "losing the faith" my test was praying that God would give me complete faith again. I mean, really, it makes no sense why he wouldn't. God wanted us to have faith. I wanted to have faith. I wasn't asking for anything selfish, I just wanted to believe what he wanted me to believe. But nope. It didn't work.

So, if it turns out that I'm wrong and there is a God, I can say it was his fault! If he wanted me to be a believer, he should have answered my last prayer!

It's really sad how many "chances" some us give to an imaginary person. 
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Amicale

#55
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 22, 2012, 02:00:24 AM
Quote from: Asherah on March 16, 2012, 03:48:25 AM
Then, one day, I just stopped believing. I think the big moment for me was realizing that the things written in the Bible don't happen in real life. People aren't born of virgins, turn water to wine, walk on water, rise from the dead, and fly up into the air to meet god. In addition, I asked god to levitate the chair in my living room....and, He didn't... ;D He's not there. I also, just for good measure, asked God to have someone tell me what I'm thinking. I thought up something random - the Pythagorean Theorem. I thought that if just one person at church could have a prophecy for me that they would say "God told me to tell you that you having been thinking of the Pythagorean Theorem." I would totally believe...well, he may have to  levitate the chair too

When I was "losing the faith" my test was praying that God would give me complete faith again. I mean, really, it makes no sense why he wouldn't. God wanted us to have faith. I wanted to have faith. I wasn't asking for anything selfish, I just wanted to believe what he wanted me to believe. But nope. It didn't work.

So, if it turns out that I'm wrong and there is a God, I can say it was his fault! If he wanted me to be a believer, he should have answered my last prayer!

It's really sad how many "chances" some us give to an imaginary person.  

DJ, it went very much the same way for me. I started experiencing what Christians sometimes refer to as "really dry faith". I wasn't feeling it, I was questioning it like crazy, and the whole time I was praying that God would just give me my faith back -- and obviously, it didn't happen. It's not like I needed some happy sappy lovey dovey feeling. A firm conviction in my beliefs solely on intellectual grounds would have done me just fine, even if I never felt "close" to God again, as I used to think I did. But alas, no. It was like the more questions I asked, the more doors just kept slamming shut until I realized I was on the other side of faith, and I couldn't go back in again.

If it turns out I'm wrong and there is a God, and that God is the one described in the Bible, I'd have a heck of a lot of questions for him, everything from so many people begging for faith only to be denied, to the sorry, sad state of affairs here on earth for so many of his "children". Am I angry at God? Well, no, I'd only be angry if I thought he actually existed as described. The only excuse this 'god' has is that he/she/it in all likelihood doesn't exist. I know too many people who lost their faith the way I did, DJ did, others here and elsewhere did.

DJ, you said it's really sad how many chances some of us give to an imaginary person. Well, I gave 'him' lots of chances. And you know the saddest thing? I never saw it that way. Instead, I was the one asking that 'god' for "just one more chance" because I was convinced that I had been the one who screwed up and wasn't faithful enough for HIM. Go figure. Faith fucks with your head, it really, truly does. If I do one good thing in this world, it'll be to spare my daughter the childhood indoctrination I got, myself... and just teach her how to ask questions from the get go, and let her know how precious and loved she is just for being HER, not because she needs some kind of "salvation".


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Asherah

Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 22, 2012, 02:00:24 AM
Quote from: Asherah on March 16, 2012, 03:48:25 AM
Then, one day, I just stopped believing. I think the big moment for me was realizing that the things written in the Bible don't happen in real life. People aren't born of virgins, turn water to wine, walk on water, rise from the dead, and fly up into the air to meet god. In addition, I asked god to levitate the chair in my living room....and, He didn't... ;D He's not there. I also, just for good measure, asked God to have someone tell me what I'm thinking. I thought up something random - the Pythagorean Theorem. I thought that if just one person at church could have a prophecy for me that they would say "God told me to tell you that you having been thinking of the Pythagorean Theorem." I would totally believe...well, he may have to  levitate the chair too 

When I was "losing the faith" my test was praying that God would give me complete faith again. I mean, really, it makes no sense why he wouldn't. God wanted us to have faith. I wanted to have faith. I wasn't asking for anything selfish, I just wanted to believe what he wanted me to believe. But nope. It didn't work.

So, if it turns out that I'm wrong and there is a God, I can say it was his fault! If he wanted me to be a believer, he should have answered my last prayer!

It's really sad how many "chances" some us give to an imaginary person. 

I've prayed that too!! And, my family is praying for that! And, I still don't believe. It's so crazy to realize that for 15 years I've been praying and serving a god who isn't there!!! It's surreal. I'm glad I can move on, though. I'm so tired of trying to "hear his voice" and be "lead by the spirit".....whatever the hell all that means.
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Jimmy

#57
I asked too many questions!!!   :D No one had a satisfying answer  :'( , well at least my parents, relatives, and church didn't. I remember being in like first or second grade and asking my Catholic teacher(for first communion preparation)what God was made out of and she looked really nervous...lol...and told me he was made of a spirit, like a soul. So I asked the next obvious question, what does a soul looked like? She was hesitant, but drew an outline of a human figure on the chalkboard with what he looked like something between the symbol for a number (#) and a knotted ball of yard over the chest and then smiled. YIKES!!!  :o I was TOTALLY not impressed.

Then there were those numerous nights, about third or fourth grade, when I would lie awake at night and think about outer space and God.  ::) Back then, we were taught in science class that the universe went on forever and that was extremely hard to grasp as a child. Forever? Really?!! Everything has a boundary, my house, my body, the block I lived on, the country I lived in, how could the universe not have one. If it did then there must be something on the other side of that boundary, right? Where does that END?!! AHHH!!! BRAIN FREEZE!!!! The same thing with God. Who made him and WHO made HIS creator?!! AAHH!!! ANOTHER BRAIN FREEZE!!! Then God said, "Kid, shut the hell up and go to bed." So I did ;)

Education is really what tipped me in the right direction, along with my natural curiosity, toward atheism. Learning about the natural forces that actually make the world go round made me realize that if there is a God, then it at most, far removed from personal matters. Although I occasionally have "spiritual moments", or fits, as I like to call them, they are usually brief and go away as readily as the antidotal, logistical medicine is applied. :D
For if there be no Prospect beyond the Grave, the inference is certainly right, Let us eat and drink, les us enjoy what we delight in, for to morrow we shall die.   ~John Locke~

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Jimmy on March 24, 2012, 06:55:44 PM
I asked too many questions!!!   :D No one had a satisfying answer  :'( , well at least my parents, relatives, and church didn't.

Yep.  Nothing made sense, and the more I studied the less sense it made.  I was told I would understand . . . eventually . . . when I was older.  And I guess I did, tho not in the way I was intended to.  I read the bible front to back and understood that as a collection of moral fables went it was no worse than most, but not really any better either.  As a practical guide to life it had several good points that could also be found in other religions or secular philosophies, and a whole lot of bullshit.  Which I'm not condemning either the bible or its compliers for, that's generally how it goes with old stories.  But I'm supposed to be accepting this as literally true (which was way I was taught) and for modern day use?  No.

Quote. . .  if there is a God, then it at most, far removed from personal matters.

That's pretty much where I'm at.  There may well be a god, for all I know or can know, but I seriously doubt the various guesses of humans have any resemblence the possible actuality, and the Xtian god seems to me particularly improbable with its aggressively human slant.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Jimmy

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on March 24, 2012, 07:39:16 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 24, 2012, 06:55:44 PM
I asked too many questions!!!   :D No one had a satisfying answer  :'( , well at least my parents, relatives, and church didn't.

Yep.  Nothing made sense, and the more I studied the less sense it made.  I was told I would understand . . . eventually . . . when I was older.  And I guess I did, tho not in the way I was intended to.  I read the bible front to back and understood that as a collection of moral fables went it was no worse than most, but not really any better either.  As a practical guide to life it had several good points that could also be found in other religions or secular philosophies, and a whole lot of bullshit.  Which I'm not condemning either the bible or its compliers for, that's generally how it goes with old stories.  But I'm supposed to be accepting this as literally true (which was way I was taught) and for modern day use?  No.

Quote. . .  if there is a God, then it at most, far removed from personal matters.

That's pretty much where I'm at.  There may well be a god, for all I know or can know, but I seriously doubt the various guesses of humans have any resemblence the possible actualifty, and the Xtian god seems to me particularly improbable with its aggressively human slant.


Exactly!! Even if there IS one, I'm sure it's not biased in favor of humans or that any of the religions are "right" about the characteristics that being may have; or how it behave toward us.
For if there be no Prospect beyond the Grave, the inference is certainly right, Let us eat and drink, les us enjoy what we delight in, for to morrow we shall die.   ~John Locke~