News:

There is also the shroud of turin, which verifies Jesus in a new way than other evidences.

Main Menu

Islam and Atheism

Started by Fatih, March 24, 2018, 08:47:44 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dave

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:42:51 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:20:55 PM

But a myth Allah can not protect anything. And just because you spent 25 years reading a fairy tale does not mean that the fairy tail is true. If a person spent 25 years studying the Harry Potter books that would not make then true any more than studying the lies of Mohamed (piss be upon him) would make them true either.

But the problem is which part of Quran makes you think that it is a Myth?

Forexample The ayah below

"Allah orders you to be fair, doing favors to others, doing favor to your relatives, and forbid you to be shameless and cruel and mean and hateful "

Like the bible the koran is a composite of the way humans were expected to think and behave at the time of their writing. A codification of expected behaviour, ritualised to make it stick. They both contain wisdom, that cannot be denied, but it is wrapped up in out of date thinking and threats.

And, ignoring the psychopaths that infest Muslim cultures (and others where religion is given power), there seems to be a medieval frame of mind that fits well with a set of medieval rules. As I said before, in this current world the most violent countries are the most religious, just about all Muslim nations, any that have an active Islamist faction (such as Boko Haram), some Buddhist countries, parts of India, several middle and South Amarican countries, even the USA to some extent.

The West has blood on its hands in the near and middle East, I have to agree, but the locals are wading through lakes of it.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tank

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:46:47 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:24:35 PM
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi would say exactly the same about you. To him you are not a true believer. He would say you serve evil as you do not follow the truth that in his eyes is the Quran. There is no discernable difference between you and him. Get over it.

It is a fact that
I never killed an innocent person and I will never intent to.
Instead I helped hundreds of people to live under conditions that a human deserves. I am helping people to live not to die.
That is an enough evidence that we are different.
Ah. So your behaviours make you different. Fair enough. But you read the same Quran as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. You have both studied it for decades. Yet you behave differently from him. Which means the Quran is ambiguous. Surly a book written by the alleged creator of the Universe would not be ambiguous? No the difference between him and you is that you are a better man than him. No gods required.

In fact if gods existed there would be no need for books, nor religions. We would just be born knowing the truth of our existence.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Fatih

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:57:39 PM
You have both studied it for decades. Yet you behave differently from him. Which means the Quran is ambiguous.

Nope that means They don't read Quran :)
They just accept assumptions of other people (Who command them and intentionally make them far away from Quran to prevent them see the true religion)
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Tank

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:50:50 PM

All religions are myths. All holy books claim to be the true word of god. You deny all but your own. All the other people deny all holy books but their own (what a surprise) I just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the stupidity of believers. The fact that a conman like Mohamed (piss be upon him) wrote it is the other huge giveaway.

Nope, I accept all original version of Holy books. Just know that all of them beside the last one (Quran) are changed by human hand to earn benefit from innocent people. I am just against this.
No you don't you deny all other faiths but your own you are a liar. Taqiyya at work.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 07:01:13 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:57:39 PM
You have both studied it for decades. Yet you behave differently from him. Which means the Quran is ambiguous.

Nope that means They don't read Quran :)
They just accept assumptions of other people (Who command them and intentionally make them far away from Quran to prevent them see the true religion)
Oh finally we get to The no true Scotsman fallacy. It was only a matter of time. Deny what does not suit your delusions.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Fatih

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 06:56:59 PM

Like the bible the koran is a composite of the way humans were expected to think and behave at the time of their writing. A codification of expected behaviour, ritualised to make it stick. They both contain wisdom, that cannot be denied, but it is wrapped up in out of date thinking and threats.

And, ignoring the psychopaths that infest Muslim cultures (and others where religion is given power), there seems to be a medieval frame of mind that fits well with a set of medieval rules. As I said before, in this current world the most violent countries are the most religious, just about all Muslim nations, any that have an active Islamist faction (such as Boko Haram), some Buddhist countries, parts of India, several middle and South Amarican countries, even the USA to some extent.

The West has blood on its hands in the near and middle East, I have to agree, but the locals are wading through lakes of it.

Do you know what makes me really sorry?

All the Muslims that I can show you as Humanity monument are under earth. They are just history now.

As I said, evil succeed his job. Made Muslims far away from their book, illiterate, unconscious.

What can I say?

This is the most difficult time of the earth, considering (life is an exam). It is really hard to find the truth nowadays.

Because Muslims don't look like Muslims (Illiterate, poor, mean, primitive) and the others have wealth.
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Dave

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Fatih

Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:50:50 PM

All religions are myths. All holy books claim to be the true word of god. You deny all but your own. All the other people deny all holy books but their own (what a surprise) I just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the stupidity of believers. The fact that a conman like Mohamed (piss be upon him) wrote it is the other huge giveaway.

Nope, I accept all original version of Holy books. Just know that all of them beside the last one (Quran) are changed by human hand to earn benefit from innocent people. I am just against this.
No you don't you deny all other faiths but your own you are a liar. Taqiyya at work.

No.
Try to understand that I am saying all holy believes come from the same source, God.

Taqiyya is a word for Shias not for sunnies. We don't lie in anyway.
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Tank

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 07:12:26 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.
He did reply he is Sunni.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 07:14:37 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 07:12:26 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.
He did reply he is Sunni.

Thanks, missed that.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tank

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 07:14:13 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:50:50 PM

All religions are myths. All holy books claim to be the true word of god. You deny all but your own. All the other people deny all holy books but their own (what a surprise) I just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the stupidity of believers. The fact that a conman like Mohamed (piss be upon him) wrote it is the other huge giveaway.

Nope, I accept all original version of Holy books. Just know that all of them beside the last one (Quran) are changed by human hand to earn benefit from innocent people. I am just against this.
No you don't you deny all other faiths but your own you are a liar. Taqiyya at work.

No.
Try to understand that I am saying all holy believes come from the same source, God.

Taqiyya is a word for Shias not for sunnies. We don't lie in anyway.
How can beliefs come from a supernatural entity for which there is no evidence?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Fatih

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 07:12:26 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2018, 06:40:05 PM
The power of a religion to blind itself to its own faults and to its effect on its members must be a form of mass mental illness.

You are living in a Christian society. You may be right. You probably right.

I am just saying If you were living in the age of Ottomans (the biggest Islamic emperor in history), after seing their kindness and humanity you would change your mind about religious societies

I am aware that the Ottoman period was a flowering of art and science. But was it also not a time of cruelty? It was an empire if its time that grew fatter and more corrupt the longer it lasted. That was then, the only use for history is to be learned from, your culture is sadly lacking there - it is still fighting ancient feuds.

Did you answer Tank's question as to which faction of Islam you hold to? Missed it if you did. It is of interest but not critical to our opinions I think.

Nope Ottomans ruled the world with justice. Except personal mistakes, which only bind its owner.

As  I said I am Sunni
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Fatih

Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 07:16:41 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 07:14:13 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:50:50 PM

All religions are myths. All holy books claim to be the true word of god. You deny all but your own. All the other people deny all holy books but their own (what a surprise) I just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the stupidity of believers. The fact that a conman like Mohamed (piss be upon him) wrote it is the other huge giveaway.

Nope, I accept all original version of Holy books. Just know that all of them beside the last one (Quran) are changed by human hand to earn benefit from innocent people. I am just against this.
No you don't you deny all other faiths but your own you are a liar. Taqiyya at work.

No.
Try to understand that I am saying all holy believes come from the same source, God.

Taqiyya is a word for Shias not for sunnies. We don't lie in anyway.
How can beliefs come from a supernatural entity for which there is no evidence?

Tank, you teach me the answer of the problem below and I will give you the answer of your question above.

Hold a born blind person's hand, take him to the desert under bright sun and try to prove the existence of Sun.

How can you do that?

Can you convince him by saying "Do you feel warm? That is because of sun" Can you prove the existence of light to the person who is in dark, by just showing its consequences.

God's signature is everywhere, from icosahedral viruses to the 200 billion star galaxies if you don't want to see it What Can I do?
Name changed from Islam to Fatih to simplify forum searches.

Old Seer

Quote from: Islam on March 24, 2018, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 24, 2018, 06:50:50 PM

All religions are myths. All holy books claim to be the true word of god. You deny all but your own. All the other people deny all holy books but their own (what a surprise) I just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the stupidity of believers. The fact that a conman like Mohamed (piss be upon him) wrote it is the other huge giveaway.

Nope, I accept all original version of Holy books. Just know that all of them beside the last one (Quran) are changed by human hand to earn benefit from innocent people. I am just against this.
So the one who wrote your book is infallible. Who was this infallible person?
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.