Why Evolution is not true?

[Messenger]

Evolution is a scientific theory that can be true or false

-Evolutionists claim it is proved by facts
-Creationists claim it is a myth
Both are wrong  

Even that most of what evolutionists claim are indeed facts, they don't prove evolution, they are just clues not proofs
On the other side, there are many facts that can be used to disprove (parts) of the theory

My conclusion is
If Evolution happened then it is an intelligent evolution (Excluding human due to religious beliefs)
i.e. The part about change due to mutation (or any other unintelligent cause) is definitely wrong

So I'll only debate 2 issues
1-Can any one prove that Mutation is the cause of evolution/change?
2-I'll Prove that intelligent is the only possible cause of change (if it ever happened)

[Kyuuketsuki]

[karadan]

Evolution is a scientific theory that can be true or false

-Evolutionists claim it is proved by facts
-Creationists claim it is a myth
Both are wrong  

Even that most of what evolutionists claim are indeed facts, they don't prove evolution, they are just clues not proofs
On the other side, there are many facts that can be used to disprove (parts) of the theory

My conclusion is
If Evolution happened then it is an intelligent evolution (Excluding human due to religious beliefs)
i.e. The part about change due to mutation (or any other unintelligent cause) is definitely wrong

So I'll only debate 2 issues
1-Can any one prove that Mutation is the cause of evolution/change?
2-I'll Prove that intelligent is the only possible cause of change (if it ever happened)

The cabbage white butterfly showed signs of rapid evolution to combat the climbing pollution in the UK in the early 1900's. There was a forest outside sheffield which had lots of silver birch trees (all of this is from memory so i may have got the species of tree incorrect - they were white anyway). The cabbage white used to sit on these trees because it afforded them a decent level of camoflage. When Sheffield became industrialised, the local pollution turned the bark of the silver birch trees a dark brown. Lots of cabbage whites started to get picked off by the birds as they were now highly visible on the brown trees. Within a couple of generations 90% of the cabbage white population was now brown.

This is a perfect example of evolution happening in our own lifetimes.

Please provide scientific proof of intelligent design.

[Messenger]

The cabbage white butterfly showed signs of rapid evolution to combat the climbing pollution in the UK in the early 1900's. There was a forest outside sheffield which had lots of silver birch trees (all of this is from memory so i may have got the species of tree incorrect - they were white anyway). The cabbage white used to sit on these trees because it afforded them a decent level of camoflage. When Sheffield became industrialised, the local pollution turned the bark of the silver birch trees a dark brown. Lots of cabbage whites started to get picked off by the birds as they were now highly visible on the brown trees. Within a couple of generations 90% of the cabbage white population was now brown.

This is a perfect example of evolution happening in our own lifetimes.

Please provide scientific proof of intelligent design.

None, this is a fact of change not evolution
Species change but don't evolve

It is like saying as apples are red, then all red cars are made of apples  

[Kyuuketsuki]

None, this is a fact of change not evolution,
Species change but don't evolve

If something adapts far enough it changes. Small change plus small change plus small change plus small change plus small change ((and many more) ultimately results in big change ... it really isn't rocket science. And if that simple concept is not true then there must be something that prevents it so the question you have to answer is what is that mechanism?

It is like saying as apples are red, then all red cars are made of apples  

It's nothing like it at all.

When are you going to answer my post?

Kyu

[Messenger]

Eels


Some of Eels grew then migrate through open ocean journey back to their spawning grounds for over 6,000 km in the sea, crossing even wet grasslands, swamps, rivers, etc.

How they know their way back to the exact spot? ....................Don't bother answering it, it is not the real question

The question is: Regardless of the method they use,  From where they get the information to do so?

The only possible answer is an external intelligent source must feed them that information after/before birth

You can not find an answer, ok, just find an explanation, NO, Ok, just imagine an alternate way?
Maybe I can help,
1- Eels have a university that teach young eels how to navigate
2- They are born equipped (by total coincidence) with an advanced GPS
3- Eels are not animals, they are robots created by theists to disprove evolution
4- Eels don't exist  

[Messenger]

If something adapts far enough it changes. Small change plus small change plus small change plus small change plus small change ((and many more) ultimately results in big change ... it really isn't rocket science. And if that simple concept is not true then there must be something that prevents it so the question you have to answer is what is that mechanism?

Yes, what you say is true, but it is not a proof at all it is a clue

It is like seeing BMW cars models over 100 years, it is only a small change from model 1982 to 1983 (Maybe just an extra flash light)
Does that means that 1-BMW car evolved and that  2-that flash light is there by an accident
1 is only possible, but 2 is ridiculous

[karadan]

The cabbage white butterfly showed signs of rapid evolution to combat the climbing pollution in the UK in the early 1900's. There was a forest outside sheffield which had lots of silver birch trees (all of this is from memory so i may have got the species of tree incorrect - they were white anyway). The cabbage white used to sit on these trees because it afforded them a decent level of camoflage. When Sheffield became industrialised, the local pollution turned the bark of the silver birch trees a dark brown. Lots of cabbage whites started to get picked off by the birds as they were now highly visible on the brown trees. Within a couple of generations 90% of the cabbage white population was now brown.

This is a perfect example of evolution happening in our own lifetimes.

Please provide scientific proof of intelligent design.

None, this is a fact of change not evolution
Species change but don't evolve

It is like saying as apples are red, then all red cars are made of apples  

No, this IS evolution. It is the survival of the fittest priciple inducing the wide-spread change in a species due to the genetic traits favouring one genotype over the other.

Classic Darwinism which proves you incorrect i'm afraid.

And yes, you saying all cars being made of apples is crazy. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?

[Kyuuketsuki]

If something adapts far enough it changes. Small change plus small change plus small change plus small change plus small change ((and many more) ultimately results in big change ... it really isn't rocket science. And if that simple concept is not true then there must be something that prevents it so the question you have to answer is what is that mechanism?

Yes, what you say is true, but it is not a proof at all it is a clue

No, it is not a clue, it is serious problem for anyone (like you) claiming that speciation does not occur.

It is like seeing BMW cars models over 100 years, it is only a small change from model 1982 to 1983 (Maybe just an extra flash light)
Does that means that 1-BMW car evolved and that  2-that flash light is there by an accident
1 is only possible, but 2 is ridiculous

Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with cars, that is a strawman argument.

Kyu

[Kyuuketsuki]

Some of Eels grew then migrate through open ocean journey back to their spawning grounds for over 6,000 km in the sea, crossing even wet grasslands, swamps, rivers, etc.

How they know their way back to the exact spot? ....................Don't bother answering it, it is not the real question.

The question is: Regardless of the method they use, From where they get the information to do so?

That's your evidence why evolution is wrong? All you have there is an argument from personal incredulity, just because you're not capable of envisaging how this might occur is irrelevant to science, just because science doesn't happen to know the answer right this moment does not and never will mean you are right ... ultimately this is nothing more than an unanswered question and nothing in science or evolutionary theory dictates that we have to have an answer for every dumb question know-nothings like you pose.

I have a better "proof" that evolution is wrong ... you haven't evolved there evolution is wrong! Oh no ... wait ... it's not that you haven't evolved ... it's because you're so wrapped up in your stupid religious belief system, you cannot objectively handle the facts!  

The only possible answer is an external intelligent source must feed them that information after/before birth

Another explanation is you might be an idiot ... oh don't bother, I already know the answer to that one. .

You can not find an answer, ok, just find an explanation, NO, Ok, just imagine an alternate way?
Maybe I can help,
1- Eels have a university that teach young eels how to navigate
2- They are born equipped (by total coincidence) with an advanced GPS
3- Eels are not animals, they are robots created by theists to disprove evolution
4- Eels don't exist  

Alternatively one might consider that science is an ongoing and self-correcting attempt to explore the observable universe ... the fact that it is self-correcting means that nothing can be held as absolute, the fact that it is ongoing means it isn't done yet and therefore does not claim to have an answer to every dumb question.

Kyu

[Will]

I have a better "proof" that evolution is wrong ... you haven't evolved there evolution is wrong! Oh no ... wait ... it's not that you haven't evolved ... it's because you're so wrapped up in your stupid religious belief system, you cannot objectively handle the facts!

Let's try to stay on track.

Messenger, Kyuuketsuki posted a rather perfect response right off the bat which you didn't seem to respond to. Did you read the article, "Is Evolution Science?"? Are you familiar with the scientific method and how that method has been used to test evolution?

[oldschooldoc]

It is like saying as apples are red, then all red cars are made of apples  

Seriously? I mean, seriously? That had absolutely nothing to do with what karadan was saying, and it was one of the most ridiculous "arguments" I've ever heard.

Karadan is correct, the changing of the cabbage white butterfly was a very good example of rapid evolution. She dealt you a deathblow, get over it. On to the next argument, if you have one that is not as ridiculous as your "eels" argument. Are you really trying to say that god tells the eels where to go? Like Kyu said, it's not rocket science.

[Kylyssa]

Simply because we don't know the answer to a question it does not mean that the answer is magic.  And because we don't know the answer it does not mean we are stupid or following incorrect paths of inquiry.  If a five year old cannot explain the exact means by which a man can land on the moon it neither means that he is stupid, nor that he will never discover the correct explanation.  What is stupid is giving up on finding the correct answer and saying of every fascinating mystery - "god did it".

"God did it" is not an answer, it is a cop out.  It's the same cop out that causes you to say with a straight face that God has always existed after requiring that everything complex must have a creator.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Let's try to stay on track.

Will, conversations flex, give them some breathing room will you?

Messenger, Kyuuketsuki posted a rather perfect response right off the bat which you didn't seem to respond to. Did you read the article, "Is Evolution Science?"? Are you familiar with the scientific method and how that method has been used to test evolution?

Thank you for that at least.

Kyu

[Tom62]

Hi Messenger, why don't you have a look at the excellent interview with a real Christian scientist in this thread viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2347
From that scientist you can learn for example why a literal interpretation of the Bible is absolutely wrong; why creationism is not scientific and why evolution offers the best scientific explanation (and not just a theory) for life on Earth.