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Two Questions for Christians

Started by NearBr0ken, June 30, 2008, 02:36:39 PM

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Dickson

Quote from: "McQ"There are a few items that need to be addressed in your beliefs that I think keep you from an understanding of evolution, biology and chemistry.



Yeah, the biggest item that keeps me from understanding chemistry is my English degree.   ;)


I got the "water goes against the grain by expanding" idea from my high school physics teacher, a self-described agnostic.  Since she had the degree and I didn't, I figured she knew more science than I.

Both McQ and jcm have valid refutations against what I'm saying (and not to worry, I don't think anyone's being a jerk).  I hope that I'm not coming across as one of those "since I can't explain it, it must be God" folks, because that's not how my brain operates.  There's a whole helluva lot that I don't understand about the universe, and I don't give God credit for everything.  

But, I do think that there is some room for God in stuff.  Our brains are magnificigant things, no doubt about it, but the capacity for art, love, emotion--I don't know--seems too juicy to be explained by mere science.

QuoteI don't think consciousness exist supernaturally

I guess that's the seed of our differences, huh?  I think that a being can exist outside of/ without a body.
"If there is a God,
I know he likes to rock"
--Billy Corgan

McQ

Quote from: "Dickson"
Quote from: "McQ"There are a few items that need to be addressed in your beliefs that I think keep you from an understanding of evolution, biology and chemistry.


Yeah, the biggest item that keeps me from understanding chemistry is my English degree.   :D
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

afreethinker30

Nice to see  people who think differently but being friendly to one another.This doesn't happen often enough.If everyone could just understand we all don't have the same thoughts,ideas or beliefs and still be friendly this world would be a much better place. :beer:

Dickson

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Nice to see  people who think differently but being friendly to one another.This doesn't happen often enough.If everyone could just understand we all don't have the same thoughts,ideas or beliefs and still be friendly this world would be a much better place. :beer:

I think that Internet forums don't lend themselves to this type of conversation.  Most of the Christians who post on this site (and I'm basing this opinion on a small number of posts) are out to convert y'all.  In the physical world, most Christians don't act like the posters on this board do.  In fact, most of the folks with whom I've gone to church have been able to have civil conversations with folks about differences.  I'm an Episcopalian, and we tend to be a little more chilled out than other denominations (I think it's the wine every Sunday).  

I remember a young adults' Sunday school class I was in a few years ago.  We had leftist, liberal me, a few literalists, a super evangelical girl, and a smattering of folks in between.  We disagreed on damn near everything but understood that we didn't know everything.  Quite often, we'd go grab lunch at our favorite Mexican restaurant after services.

This is how most Christians live and act around other people.  I'm sorry that you all don't get to see that.  It sucks that a few assholes have to go and give the rest of us a bad name.
"If there is a God,
I know he likes to rock"
--Billy Corgan

myleviathan

Quote from: "Dickson"Interesting.  Is your background/ job working with chemicals?  Science is a field I find fascinating but never excelled in.


Am I wrong in saying that the trend, though, is for things to contract when they cool?  (It's likely that I slept though class on the day this was explained)



At any rate, I think there are some things that can't be explained by science.  Why I love my dog, for instance, or why I prefer Faulkner to Hemingway.  There's no scientific explanation as to why I hate raw tomatoes:  I just do.

I am a computer tech guy, but I have takent a few chemistry classes.

Substances do generally contract when they cool, making their density greater by decreasing molecular volume. However because certain substances defy that pattern doesn't mean they are defying physics or chemistry. They are on the other hand defining physics and chemistry. These events are still completely natural. It's also a commonplace idea that airplanes defy physics. But this isn't the case.

It seems like you may be discounting science for it's inability to explain absolutely everything, while I don't think any atheist actually believes that it can. Sure, it falls short in areas that are difficult to calculate. But the trend of science is to dispell superstition. And the fact that you don't take the Bible literally is a testament to the prominence of science. You would have been labelled a heretic and burned a few hundred years ago for espousing that view openly within mainstream Christian culture.
"On the moon our weekends are so far advanced they encompass the entire week. Jobs have been phased out. We get checks from the government, and we spend it on beer! Mexican beer! That's the cheapest of all beers." --- Ignignokt & Err

McQ

Quote from: "Dickson"
Quote from: "afreethinker30"Nice to see  people who think differently but being friendly to one another.This doesn't happen often enough.If everyone could just understand we all don't have the same thoughts,ideas or beliefs and still be friendly this world would be a much better place. ;)
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

afreethinker30

Quote from: "Dickson"
Quote from: "afreethinker30"Nice to see  people who think differently but being friendly to one another.This doesn't happen often enough.If everyone could just understand we all don't have the same thoughts,ideas or beliefs and still be friendly this world would be a much better place. :brick:

Asmodean

Quote from: "karadan"1. None, because they have faith.

2. Never, because they have faith.
Ah... you beat me to it, so QFT.  :cool:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

leftyguitarjoe

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Nice to see  people who think differently but being friendly to one another.This doesn't happen often enough.If everyone could just understand we all don't have the same thoughts,ideas or beliefs and still be friendly this world would be a much better place. :cool:

Dickson

Quote from: "leftyguitarjoe"Thank you Dickson for not immediately condemning us to hell!!! An understanding christian is worthy of much respect :cool:

Ahh, condemning folks to hell takes too much energy.  

Seriously, though, I've encountered atheist-centered boards whose members were quite hostile towards me and my faith.  So I volley the compliment back.  Thanks for letting me be me.
"If there is a God,
I know he likes to rock"
--Billy Corgan

Smallville

Quote from: "Dickson"
Quote from: "leftyguitarjoe"Thank you Dickson for not immediately condemning us to hell!!! An understanding christian is worthy of much respect :cool:

Ahh, condemning folks to hell takes too much energy.  

Seriously, though, I've encountered atheist-centered boards whose members were quite hostile towards me and my faith.  So I volley the compliment back.  Thanks for letting me be me.

One of the reasons I was attracted to these boards in the first place was the sense and sensibility the members project in their communications.
Some other boards were to full of vitriol when I only wanted to exchange freely and openly without worries of nastiness.
Glad you're with us.
p.s. You never did say what part of the South you are from.
Two wrongs don't make a right but three left turns will.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." â€" Nietzsche
"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt." - Clarence Darrow

Voter

Quote from: "NearBr0ken"These questions are simple.  I'd like an answer.

1.)  How much evidence for scientific theories must be presented before there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that it is the truth?
Depends on the theory and the evidence.  If you're talking evolution, show me some evidence and we can discuss.
Quote2.)  When will you begin to offer scientific evidence of the existence of your god?
Personally, probably never.
Quote from: "An anonymous atheist poster here"Your world view is your world view. If you keep it to yourself then I don't really care what it is. Trouble is you won't keep it to yourself and that's fine too. But if you won't keep your beliefs to yourself you have no right, no right whatsoever, not to have your world view bashed. You make your wo

tdh26

Quote from: "NearBr0ken"1.)  How much evidence for scientific theories must be presented before there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that it is the truth?
2.)  When will you begin to offer scientific evidence of the existence of your god?
1.The Laws of Physics were first just theories until they were proven by reproducible tests. It just has to be reproducible every time.
2. You will never prove the exsistance of God by scientific evidence because scientific evidence is just the study of the physical universe. How can that prove the exsitance of a supernatural being? There are other means we can use though. I read someones posts that metaphysics is a good way to disprove God. Although I've read commentaries from others (not this forum) that metaphysics is a good way to prove the exsistance of God. I read someones posts that Occam's Razor is a good way to disprove God's existence. In my view, Occam's Razor is a good way to prove the existence of God. Mathmatics can be employed in the sense that the universe is so complex it could never just happen randomly.
It's all in what you want to believe and I think pride has a lot to do with it too. For atheists and a believer in a higher power. There is a final truth to everything and I hope people here are just trying to find it and respect each others beliefs.

Loffler

Quote from: "Voter"
Quote from: "NearBr0ken"These questions are simple.  I'd like an answer.

1.)  How much evidence for scientific theories must be presented before there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that it is the truth?
Depends on the theory and the evidence.  If you're talking evolution, show me some evidence and we can discuss.
Giving you all the evidence for evolution would take years. Here's a good starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_for_evolution

Loffler

Quote from: "tdh26"Mathmatics can be employed in the sense that the universe is so complex it could never just happen randomly.
Actually mathematics cannot be employed to demonstrate that. The number 234523453453455398002935- 2035929759379100102010201033948203023445 is so rare it's unlikely to occur randomly, but that doesn't make its occurrence a coincidence. There's not "co" in that "coincidence." It's just "incidence." If the number occurred twice, that would be a coincidence.

The amazement at how unlikely it is that we're here demonstrates a belief that humanity is the purpose of the universe. If we weren't here, the Earth still would be. If planets weren't here, the sun still would be. If stars weren't here, the Milky Way still would be. If galaxies weren't here, the universe still would be. If the universe weren't here... maybe something else, maybe nothing would be.