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A Game of Thrones (Full of spoilers!)

Started by Sandra Craft, May 28, 2012, 10:48:05 AM

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xSilverPhinx

 :shrug: Can't say whether I agree or not, as the book hasn't even been released yet. I'm assuming D&D don't exactly have much to work with other than what George Martin tells them is going to be in the 6th book, or an unfinished manuscript.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 25, 2016, 03:14:02 PM
:shrug: Can't say whether I agree or not, as the book hasn't even been released yet. I'm assuming D&D don't exactly have much to work with other than what George Martin tells them is going to be in the 6th book, or an unfinished manuscript.

At this point, I think D&D are flying solo and making their own story, independent of GRRMs novels.  Since no body seems to know when he'll ever get around to writing them.

Btw, I had a hard time understanding the Israeli guys at first too.  Took at least 5 minutes before I could wrap my ears around their accents.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 26, 2016, 12:41:52 AM
Btw, I had a hard time understanding the Israeli guys at first too.  Took at least 5 minutes before I could wrap my ears around their accents.

That's some consolation. :P

Can't wait for the season finale! :jumps:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 26, 2016, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 26, 2016, 12:41:52 AM
Btw, I had a hard time understanding the Israeli guys at first too.  Took at least 5 minutes before I could wrap my ears around their accents.

That's some consolation. :P

Can't wait for the season finale! :jumps:

Me too.  I intended to watch the one that comes on at 6 p.m. and just noticed it's 6:51.  Dammit.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Asmodean

So yeah... The Listâ„¢ got some nice cleaning and a revision.

I was vastly pleased with the green goo explosion brooming the degenerates, although the... Whatshername..? In any case, she was kind of interesting.

Tommen got off too lightly, but dead and that pleases The Asmo. The preachy bum is gone. Finally.

Jon Snow... I'm inclined to give him a chance at being King of The North before demanding his gruesome death.
The ex-ex-queen is now strongly on the live-side.

The de-facto lord of the Vale got pretty deep onto the shitlist over night.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Sandra Craft

#230
*The Dead List (yes, I was keeping track)

Pycel (not sure why he had to die, other than he was a cheapskate)
Lancel Lannister
The High Sparrow (of all the people dead by whatever the glowing napalm was called, he actually had it coming)
Maergary Tyrell (really sad to see her go, but at least we still have Diana Rigg)
Loras Tyrell (he's the one I felt sorriest for -- first he had to put up with his forehead being carved, and then he died anyway)
Kevan Lannister (edited to include him, I always enjoyed his hatred of Cersai)
Tommen Baratheon (he was useless, but his death is still sad)
Black Walder Frey
Lother Frey
Walder Frey (how very Greek tragedy)

*The Red Witch should have died, but did not.  I realize she was kept alive because she's a favorite and people look forward to seeing her naked, but letting her live when she and her magic weren't going to be around to help with the zombie apocalypse was unbelievably stupid.  By that I mean I literally cannot believe anyone would do that.

*I'm seeing the pattern now in Westerosi rulers:  Aerys (crazy), Robert (useless), Joffrey (crazy), Tommen (useless), Cersai (crazy).  Hope this isn't foreshadowing for Dany.

*Also, what's going to happen when Jaime finds out that the thing he killed Aerys to prevent, Cersai actually did?  Hoping this will finally be the wedge that splits up the Lannister twins.

*What does it mean to be the Three-Eyed Raven?  What exactly is he in charge of?

*It's nice that the bannermen have all recommitted themselves to House Stark (nothing like a 10-yr old to shame a bunch of grown men) but what's going to happen when they find out it's not Ned's blood flowing in Jon's veins?  Altho he's a bastard, and his only known parent was a Stark, that bunch chanting "King in the North" seemed mostly fired up about his presumed dad.

*The future is not looking happy for Lord Baelish.  I'm assuming his continued support of the Starks was based on Sansa becoming the Lady of Winterfell and in the coming war he may pull a Lannister.  While I'm at it, it seems to me they could split the duties of heading House Stark between the siblings:  Jon can be Warden of the North and Sansa can be the Lady of Winterfell.  Might keep Baelish in line.

*The Seven Kingdoms:
The North, House Stark
The Riverlands, House Tully
The Vale, House Arreyn
The Westerlands, House Lannister
The Stormlands, House Baratheon
The Reach, House Tyrell
Dorne, House Martell (now House Sand)

bonus kingdom: The Iron Islands, House Greyjoy

Okay, so the ruling Baratheons/Lannisters, the first of which may be out of people and the second of which are out of money, are trying to stay in charge.

Heading their way is the last known member of House Targaryen with: the remainder of the Masters armada and soldiers, renegade Iron Islanders with the Iron Islands 100 best ships, the entire Unsullied Army, an enormous Dothraki Hoard and three nearly full grown dragons.  When they arrive in Westeros, they'll have the support of enormously rich House Tyrell, and Dorne which is known to have the only soldiers good enough to be able to kill dragons (tho presumably they won't have to this time).

House Stark used to be friends with House Baratheon but have no love for Lannisters.  On top of that I'm sure they'll be reclaiming the Riverlands soon enough, and Baelish has already declared the Vale's support for the North.  Not sure how much that's worth, but it still looks like House Lannister has painted itself into a very small corner.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Asmodean

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 27, 2016, 12:48:53 PM
...but what's going to happen when they find out it's not Ned's blood flowing in Jon's veins?
I think it does, and even if not, I think it largely depends on what he does with that lot.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

xSilverPhinx

Happy to see that the R+L=J hypothesis turned out to be more than mere speculation. I do wonder if Jon is ever going to learn about it in the next season.

I don't think that Jon is fit to rule, especially considering the battles and war to come. The Battle of the Bastards was disastrous for him, with his army's subsequent abandonment of their defensive position because of his emotionally driven gallop towards Rickon. While Robb Stark erred in other ways, he was smarter and never actually lost in the field. Jon's a good seasoned warrior, but not as good a commander. He'll lose battles but will he win the war? Has he learnt from that experience?

I wonder what Littlefinger is going to do next, try and get Jon killed as well? It must really burn to see that vision of him sitting on the Iron Throne with Sansa Lady of Winterfell slipping away. :snicker:

Kind of sad that Maergary died, I would have liked to see more of her maneuvers against Cersei. I was also curious to see where exactly she was going with all the pretended acceptance of the Faith. 

Good to see the High Sparrow go to hell, finally. And Lancel Lannister too.

Sad to see Tommen kill himself. He was a buffoon, but a somewhat innocent one.

Cersei, well, needless to say that one's crazy. I think it's going to be Jaime and not Tyrion who will kill her eventually.

So...Benjen Stark is dead? :scratch: They left Coldhands out in the series but when reading the books I always thought he was Benjen.

*Coldhands is another undead character who helped Bran and his group (including poor Hordor) get to the Three Eyed Raven.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 27, 2016, 01:39:24 PM

So...Benjen Stark is dead? :scratch: They left Coldhands out in the series but when reading the books I always thought he was Benjen.


Not entirely -- my understanding is that he's half dead.  Still alive enough to fight for the living, but also dead enough that the magic spells in that ice wall can keep him out.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 27, 2016, 12:48:53 PM
*What does it mean to be the Three-Eyed Raven?  What exactly is he in charge of?

I have no idea, though Bran's actions and reality does seem to influence the past (the Hordor episode and Ned Stark hearing him at the Tower of Joy) despite the Three-eyed raven telling him that it was not possible. If Bran's to be the next Three-eyed raven, then he could possibly influence events this way.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Ali

BCE - I was thinking that too, Jaime will end up killing Cersai, possibly because she actually did what the Mad King set out to do, and because she drove their last living child to suicide. I think now that she doesn't have anyone else she truly loves except maybe Jaime (does she truly love him? I'm not sure) she's even more dangerous than before.

I like Dany, but I've been thinking a lot about how her taking back Westeros is supposed to go. I mean, she sees herself as the rightful heir to the throne, and she would be a hell of a lot better for the people than Cersai, but still, isn't most of Westeros going to regard her as a foreign conquerer? Because she kind of is. But I guess the commoners in Westeros are pretty much continually getting conquered in some war or another just from the warring houses, so I guess it may not make much difference to them.

Which leads me to wonder if the way this whole thing wraps up is that Dany marries Jon. She's his aunt, but I've been given to believe from the books that that's pretty par for the course for the Targaryans anyway (maybe why Aegon was mad?) and I believe they are currently the two best looking characters on the show, plus it would wrap things up nicely politically, and then they could all fight the White Walkers together.

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Ali on June 27, 2016, 08:52:00 PM
...they could all fight the White Walkers together.

A song of Ice (Jon Snow) and Fire (Dany). :grin:

QuoteI like Dany, but I've been thinking a lot about how her taking back Westeros is supposed to go. I mean, she sees herself as the rightful heir to the throne, and she would be a hell of a lot better for the people than Cersai, but still, isn't most of Westeros going to regard her as a foreign conquerer? Because she kind of is. But I guess the commoners in Westeros are pretty much continually getting conquered in some war or another just from the warring houses, so I guess it may not make much difference to them.

George Martin doesn't exactly give the Westerosi commonfolk much weight in outcomes as far as I know, I don't think that in that universe what they want really matters. The only time people other than the nobility were serious power players was when Cersei armed the Faith Militant and the High Sparrow took over. Other than that, they are pretty voiceless. What could happen is that there might be a backlash after Cersei killed the High Sparrow, depending on how much the religiously inclined supported him and his Faith Militant.  :chin:

Dany's arc so far has been the exception in this aristocratic-centered storyline, her power was based on her having dragons and the people who follow her. In Westeros though, she can't rule without support of the major Houses. She already has Dorne and most probably Highgarden as well. Other Houses (excluding the North it seems) will almost certainly follow when news of what thr Mad Queen Cersei did.     

We don't know her stance on the Others and White Walkers but Jon knows all too well just how much of a threat they are. I don't think it'll come to marriage between him and Dany but as King in the North he will bend the knee to her and submit, if that's what it took to end the civil war and fight the undead threat.   
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: Asmodean on June 27, 2016, 10:48:15 AM
The preachy bum is gone. Finally.

His death had to have been particularly satisfying.

QuoteJon Snow... I'm inclined to give him a chance at being King of The North before demanding his gruesome death.

I dunno.  Jon strikes me as being a natural born second in command.

QuoteThe de-facto lord of the Vale got pretty deep onto the shitlist over night.

What in particular set you off?  I'd have put him on the shitlist just for his goofy dream.

Quote from: Asmodean on June 27, 2016, 01:19:29 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 27, 2016, 12:48:53 PM
...but what's going to happen when they find out it's not Ned's blood flowing in Jon's veins?
I think it does, and even if not, I think it largely depends on what he does with that lot.

This is part of what's worrying me.  So far, Jon's been pretty much crap as a Commander.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 27, 2016, 01:39:24 PM

I don't think that Jon is fit to rule, especially considering the battles and war to come. The Battle of the Bastards was disastrous for him, with his army's subsequent abandonment of their defensive position because of his emotionally driven gallop towards Rickon. While Robb Stark erred in other ways, he was smarter and never actually lost in the field. Jon's a good seasoned warrior, but not as good a commander. He'll lose battles but will he win the war? Has he learnt from that experience?

I'm doubting it.  It seems to be a major Stark flaw that what brains they have are over-ridden by emotion.  Robb never lost in the field, but he was taken down because his feelings for his lover had him breaking important pacts and disrupting alliances he needed.

QuoteI wonder what Littlefinger is going to do next, try and get Jon killed as well? It must really burn to see that vision of him sitting on the Iron Throne with Sansa Lady of Winterfell slipping away. :snicker:

Loved the look on Baelish's face during the "King in the North!" scene, and Sansa's slow realization that "oh, crap -- now I have this to deal with".

QuoteCersei, well, needless to say that one's crazy. I think it's going to be Jaime and not Tyrion who will kill her eventually.

Serve her right, too.  Now we know where Joffrey got it from.

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Ali on June 27, 2016, 08:52:00 PM
BCE - I was thinking that too, Jaime will end up killing Cersai, possibly because she actually did what the Mad King set out to do, and because she drove their last living child to suicide. I think now that she doesn't have anyone else she truly loves except maybe Jaime (does she truly love him? I'm not sure) she's even more dangerous than before.

I've never been convinced that Cersei truly loved Jaime -- at least, not as himself.  I think she only loves him as an extension of herself, which I think is the same way she loved her children.  They were all just reflections in a mirror for her.

QuoteI like Dany, but I've been thinking a lot about how her taking back Westeros is supposed to go. I mean, she sees herself as the rightful heir to the throne, and she would be a hell of a lot better for the people than Cersai, but still, isn't most of Westeros going to regard her as a foreign conquerer? Because she kind of is. But I guess the commoners in Westeros are pretty much continually getting conquered in some war or another just from the warring houses, so I guess it may not make much difference to them.

I think Dany's biggest problem will be everyone knowing who's daughter she is.  The people, and Houses, of Westeros might look from Cersei to Dany and wonder which is the frying pan and which is the fire.

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany