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A Game of Thrones (Full of spoilers!)

Started by Sandra Craft, May 28, 2012, 10:48:05 AM

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Sandra Craft

Quote from: Jimmy on June 20, 2016, 10:58:34 AM
I have just started reading the first book in the series, so I made sure I went to the last post of this thread to avoid seeing any spoilers. I want to read the books before I watch the television series.

I've never read the books (can't stand GRRM) but from what I've heard from people who both read and watch, the show is different enough from the books (and getting more dissimilar all the time) that they can be enjoyed separately.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Asmodean on June 20, 2016, 10:56:27 AM
The latest episode was good.

...But.

The first epic battle was unconvincing. They invented torsion catapults or even trebuchets for naval use, but not surface-to-dragon ballistae? How cool would the battle have been with the dragons causing mayhem while dodging volleys of ballista bolts?!

But wouldn't that look the same as them dodging fireballs?

QuoteIn the aftermath, Denarys' subtly-intrigued expression when discussing a marriage alliance with Theon's sister almost got them both off the death list... Not quite, though.

I thought only Theon was on the death list and Yarra was on the let-her-live-for-now list?

QuoteThe second battle was way too predictable with the de-facto lord of the Skydoor castle coming to the rescue.

Predictable, but satisfying.  Finally I get a scene that I want and it doesn't all turn into ashes and pain.

QuoteIn my opinion, they have also killed the wrong Stark. The kid was pretty much a nobody story-wise. They could have built on that.

I don't think the littlest Stark should have been included on the show at all -- he had literally nothing to do.

QuoteAlso, apparently, he managed to survive what..? 14 or so years in the alternate universe Dark Ages Europe without understanding the concept of running zigzag from arrows..? They could still have killed him, only a bit more convincingly, is all I'm saying.

This is par for the course with things like Bran growing up in a warrior family and not knowing you don't distract people by shouting their name during a pitched fight.

QuoteThe  Bolton spear wall was a high point. The jolly grey giant not having a club was a low (although he'd be a game ender with one) The battle except for that spear wall was utter bullshit.

This is where knowing absolutely, positively nothing about combat really pays off.  I have no idea what would or would not be believable so I just sit back and enjoy the images.  Now, if it were a scene set in a library and someone were misusing the Dewey Decimal System, I'd notice that right away and take umbrage.  But how likely is that to happen ever, much less in GoT?

QuoteRamsay and Stark Jr. are obviously off The Asmolist.

Well, yeah, being dead and all.  Has Sansa's position on the keep list changed because of this episode, based on her calling in Baelish (and we can just imagine what he's going to charge for that) and dispatching Ramsey?

QuoteI'm somewhat disappointed at how cheaply "the good guys" got off in both battles when it comes to losing major players. One kid who got literally a half hour of screen time across the seasons and one giant and the rest got off with barely a scratch..? Come on!

I'm an old-time Trekker, so I'm used to only red shirts dying.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Ali on June 20, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
STBMA pointed something out, which is that that scene was useful in illustrating how easily manipulated Jon Snow is, which makes him a liability to his army. Yes, I was relieved that his cavalry came and saved him, because like most people I have an emotional attachment to Jon Snow (even though he knows nothing) but on the whole I was a little pissed at him for forcing his army into that ill advised confrontation.

And right after Sansa specifically warned him that Ramsey would do something to try to throw Jon off his game.

QuoteI'm wondering what the renewed alliance between Sansa and Littlefinger will cost Sansa. I imagine that Littlefinger wants to marry her and finally become the Warden of the North.

Yeah, winning Winterfell back is going to have one steep price tag.

QuoteI like the alliance between Danaerys and Theon's sister. I can never remember her name, but she is my favorite Greyjoy.

Yarra.  She's about the only Iron Islander who is likable, despite that bee's wax about reaving and raping being their way of life.  If Dany comes thru for her, Yarra's going to have one hell of a time selling that culture change to the other Ironborn.  Probably last about a week on the Salt Throne.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

I liked this episode. 8/10

I was also wondering why he didn't run erratically enough to throw Ramsey off. He would have taken longer to reach Jon and relative safety but he probably would have had a better chance of survival. Jon...well, hot-headed Jon and his naiveté. Sansa warned him about falling into Ramsey's traps but to no avail, nearly cost him everything. If his half-sister hadn't shown up with Littlefinger and the army from the Vale then it would have cost him everything.

Rickon's death didn't mean much though. He was a trueborn Stark but it seems like the show is setting women up to be the leaders. I doubt Bran will ever retrun from beyond the Wall, and I don't think Jon is even Ned's son so that leaves Sansa. My guess is that Sansa will be wardeness of the north, Yara (Theon's sister) will rule the iron Islands and Danaerys will recover the Iron Throne.  :tellmemore: 

I think Littlefinger will want her to marry her cousin (that little snot Arryn, LF's son) or something.   

What was up with the Jon hitting Ramsey scene? It was like he was putting no effort into it.  :scratch:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2016, 12:27:29 AM
What was up with the Jon hitting Ramsey scene? It was like he was putting no effort into it.  :scratch:

What got my attention was that look he gave Sansa when he saw her watching -- I swear it was a "you want some of this?" look.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 20, 2016, 10:54:01 AM
Well, the Battle of the Bastards was certainly an extravaganza of good guys winning for once.  I wonder if this is the result of decreased GRRM presence?

They won, but at a high price. Rickon was killed and we have yet to see what Littlefinger is going to want in return for his help. 

QuoteDavos finding the pyre with Shireen's skull and the wooden stag he carved for her.  Oh, there will be hell to pay for this one and I can't wait to see it (and hopefully they'll wrap it up in the season finale rather than dragging it out to season 7).

Yes! I can't wait to see him confront crazy Melisandre!
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Ali

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 21, 2016, 12:39:05 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2016, 12:27:29 AM
What was up with the Jon hitting Ramsey scene? It was like he was putting no effort into it.  :scratch:

What got my attention was that look he gave Sansa when he saw her watching -- I swear it was a "you want some of this?" look.

Agreed, my interpretation at the time is that he stopped beating Ramsey to death with his bare hands because he remembered that Sansa has even more reason to want to kill him, and Jon was holding back to give her the chance.

Asmodean

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 21, 2016, 12:18:46 AM
But wouldn't that look the same as them dodging fireballs?
Yes, but they weren't. They spent too much time hovering to survive a proper thing like that.

Quote
I thought only Theon was on the death list and Yarra was on the let-her-live-for-now list?
Turning them into a package deal sort of thing got them both on the bad list.

Quote
Predictable, but satisfying.  Finally I get a scene that I want and it doesn't all turn into ashes and pain.
I'll have to re-watch the episode for that. I was too busy thinking "Oh, come the FUCK on!" to be satisfied.

Quote
I don't think the littlest Stark should have been included on the show at all -- he had literally nothing to do.
True, but I much preferred him to for example John Snow or Bran, if only because he was not ruined by a nasty character development ark.

Quote
This is par for the course with things like Bran growing up in a warrior family and not knowing you don't distract people by shouting their name during a pitched fight.
Yeah... Bran is on The Asmo's hit list too, although He still predicts that that one will survive the series.

Quote
This is where knowing absolutely, positively nothing about combat really pays off.  I have no idea what would or would not be believable so I just sit back and enjoy the images.  Now, if it were a scene set in a library and someone were misusing the Dewey Decimal System, I'd notice that right away and take umbrage.  But how likely is that to happen ever, much less in GoT?
I'm not a battle tactician. My "experience" is limited to strategy games. However, I do have a sense for what is and is not sensible. The spear wall was. The initial charge by the Stark alliance was not. Ramsay not having a backup plan with his numeric superiority was unbelievably stupid. A psychopath and a sadist the man may have been, but a fool he was not.

Quote
Well, yeah, being dead and all.  Has Sansa's position on the keep list changed because of this episode, based on her calling in Baelish (and we can just imagine what he's going to charge for that) and dispatching Ramsey?
No, there is still a lot of ambivalence in The Gray Opinion of Sansa. She is starting to get interesting though.

Quote
I'm an old-time Trekker, so I'm used to only red shirts dying.
Being used to it does not mean one doesn't get disappointed at this happening in a somewhat more realistic wartime scenario than the average in the world of fantasy.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Firebird

Quote from: Ali on June 21, 2016, 12:56:58 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 21, 2016, 12:39:05 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2016, 12:27:29 AM
What was up with the Jon hitting Ramsey scene? It was like he was putting no effort into it.  :scratch:

What got my attention was that look he gave Sansa when he saw her watching -- I swear it was a "you want some of this?" look.

Agreed, my interpretation at the time is that he stopped beating Ramsey to death with his bare hands because he remembered that Sansa has even more reason to want to kill him, and Jon was holding back to give her the chance.

No question about that. I loved that evil little smile on her face as Ramsey was being eaten too.

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2016, 12:27:29 AM
...and I don't think Jon is even Ned's son so that leaves Sansa.

I'm certain of this. Why would they go to all the trouble of bringing the character back to life if he was nothing more than a bastard? I've heard one or two interesting fan theories about this, and whether or not any of them are true, I'm sure his backstory is not what they've said so far.

Has anyone else noticed this trend of doing fight/battle scenes in one shot, as they did briefly when Jon was fighting? I first noticed it in season 1 of True Detective, when Mathew McConaughey was fighting his was out of that drug house, but it seems like everyone's getting in on it, including Daredevil and other movies. I like it, personally, as the "quick-cut" style of action movies up until now made it impossible to follow what was going on.
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Asmodean on June 21, 2016, 01:21:54 AM
Quote
I'm an old-time Trekker, so I'm used to only red shirts dying.
Being used to it does not mean one doesn't get disappointed at this happening in a somewhat more realistic wartime scenario than the average in the world of fantasy.

Does for me.  I'm just "pass the popcorn" for this stuff.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Firebird on June 21, 2016, 03:48:12 AM
I'm certain of this. Why would they go to all the trouble of bringing the character back to life if he was nothing more than a bastard? I've heard one or two interesting fan theories about this, and whether or not any of them are true, I'm sure his backstory is not what they've said so far.

I think he's still a bastard, but not Ned's bastard. Remember the scene Bran witnessed of his father Ned Stark going to rescue his sister Lyanna in the tower? It's likely that Ned's sister was giving birth to Rhaegar Targaryan''s baby and that baby was Jon, which Ned brought back to Winterfell with him as his own.  This the R+L=J theory, which is possibly the most popular among fans. Doesn't mean it's going to happen but I'm mostly convinced it is. :smilenod:

What do you think is the case?
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Firebird

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 22, 2016, 12:43:47 AM
Quote from: Firebird on June 21, 2016, 03:48:12 AM
I'm certain of this. Why would they go to all the trouble of bringing the character back to life if he was nothing more than a bastard? I've heard one or two interesting fan theories about this, and whether or not any of them are true, I'm sure his backstory is not what they've said so far.

I think he's still a bastard, but not Ned's bastard. Remember the scene Bran witnessed of his father Ned Stark going to rescue his sister Lyanna in the tower? It's likely that Ned's sister was giving birth to Rhaegar Targaryan''s baby and that baby was Jon, which Ned brought back to Winterfell with him as his own.  This the R+L=J theory, which is possibly the most popular among fans. Doesn't mean it's going to happen but I'm mostly convinced it is. :smilenod:

What do you think is the case?

Yeah, that's one. Another one I heard was that he could be the son of Robert Baratheon and Lyanna,  and Ned hid him from Robert for safety's sake since he would never be able to take Jon to king's landing. Either theory could set Jon up as a true heir, but the Targaryan theory makes more sense to me right now. Daenarys wouldn't like it very much...
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

Ali

#207
Quote from: Firebird on June 22, 2016, 01:54:24 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 22, 2016, 12:43:47 AM
Quote from: Firebird on June 21, 2016, 03:48:12 AM
I'm certain of this. Why would they go to all the trouble of bringing the character back to life if he was nothing more than a bastard? I've heard one or two interesting fan theories about this, and whether or not any of them are true, I'm sure his backstory is not what they've said so far.

I think he's still a bastard, but not Ned's bastard. Remember the scene Bran witnessed of his father Ned Stark going to rescue his sister Lyanna in the tower? It's likely that Ned's sister was giving birth to Rhaegar Targaryan''s baby and that baby was Jon, which Ned brought back to Winterfell with him as his own.  This the R+L=J theory, which is possibly the most popular among fans. Doesn't mean it's going to happen but I'm mostly convinced it is. :smilenod:

What do you think is the case?

Yeah, that's one. Another one I heard was that he could be the son of Robert Baratheon and Lyanna,  and Ned hid him from Robert for safety's sake since he would never be able to take Jon to king's landing. Either theory could set Jon up as a true heir, but the Targaryan theory makes more sense to me right now. Daenarys wouldn't like it very much...
He looks a lot more like a Baratheon than a Targaryan, which seems like a big deal since (at least in the books, I can't remember about the show) they made such a big deal about pointing out that all Baratheon's are dark (that's how Ned figured out Cercei's kids weren't Robert's) and all Targaryans are blonde with violet eyes.

Asmodean

Speaking of, whatever happened to that kid..? The... You know... What the hell was he again?

... >:(

... ...

...Joe Dempsie.  >:(
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Pasta Chick

I lean more toward Jon being a Baratheon, simply because it leaves more storyline than two Targarians with pacifist leanings vying for the throne. Plus the dark hair.

I am so bored with Ramsey's demise. I mean, really? He's supposed to be some sort of brilliant, manipulative psychopath. He's inexperienced and it would make sense for that to get him eventually, but all this build up and oops he fucked up and is dead after one battle? So anti-climactic.

Super sad about Wun Wun.

Best part of the episode was Yarra hitting on Daneries.