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General => Politics => Topic started by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 09:10:29 AM

Title: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 09:10:29 AM
I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on June 20, 2010, 09:50:58 AM
It's a matter of appealing to the lowest common denominator in hopes of trolling the most votes, I think.  It doesn't help that a large swath of the country have points they gird with verses.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: pinkocommie on June 20, 2010, 10:11:45 AM
I have to preface this by saying - I am no political aficionado by any means.  I'm 28 and self identify as a liberal, but I'm not trying to claim any special understanding or knowledge about politics.

My first impulse is to say that the vitriol simply gets the most attention and is not truly indicative of the majority of people's behavior - but I could be wrong about that.  Also, the fact that America has become essentially a two party political climate sort of sets the stage for polarization, which I feel has been made worse in recent years with the whole 'religious right' movement gaining popularity.  That, and we likes us some Jerry Springer action.  So maybe it's a cultural thing as well.  :D
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Gawen on June 20, 2010, 12:14:30 PM
I don't know. Maybe that's what we get with a two party system...
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 07:31:34 PM
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"It's a matter of appealing to the lowest common denominator in hopes of trolling the most votes, I think.  It doesn't help that a large swath of the country have points they gird with verses.

 :hmm: Never heard that term before.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 07:54:15 PM
@Pinko
I'm not a particularly political animal, although I always vote. However at different times I have voted all the way across the political spectrum. It is interesting that you note the large disaffected/apathetic group.  

One thing that looks very different in the US from the UK is the way it is acceptable to rubbish one's opponent on a personal basis. That just doesn't happen here it would backfire on the person doing in.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: "Gawen"I don't know. Maybe that's what we get with a two party system...

Possibly.

One thing I have noted while working in the US is that when people argue they both start out from the position that they are right and it is for the other party to 'prove' they are wrong. In the UK people are never quite so certain that they are right. There is often a sense of finding a common best solution.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: elliebean on June 20, 2010, 10:04:37 PM
The vitriol between the voters is manufactured by politicians with the help of mainstream (and other) media through image branding and marketing to create the illusion of a two-party system, where the real differences between the two parties are miniscule; but the people buy it and think they're really involved in the process, which they are also led to believe is important.


But I could just be cynical.  :devil:
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 20, 2010, 10:57:37 PM
Quote from: "Tank"I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.


It's a sign that we need to regulate who can and cannot vote. I don't mean to sound like an elitist but I would be in favor of a stringent voting test that would exclude those who are just slow and ignorant. Originally they had such tests but they were designed to keep minorities from voting. I propose a test where no moron could vote. Politicians pander to these idiots because they are the majority. So often they paint themselves into these idiot corners where they ramble on about some of the dumbest positions imaginable.

Americans also try to classify themselves in really, really simplistic ways. I'm a Libertarian but I'll vote for the right person who will uphold the US Constitution via their voting records. If they truly are concerned statesmen who wish to help this country and its people, I'll be all too happy to vote. I don't try to bog myself down to just one party. Then again, I'm a mix bag type when it comes to politics. Stay out of my bedroom, my bank account, my browser, etc. Don't give me a bureaucracy for every aspect of my life. Don't tell me I can't enjoy XYZ when it harms no one (or if it harms anyone it is just me harming myself ie Drinking and Smoking). I have no real party affiliation though I tend to vote Republican only because they seem to be more likely to defend my gun rights and other issues I hold important.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: TheJackel on June 20, 2010, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: "Tank"I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.

I wouldn't disagree one bit.. Have you ever been to Canada for example? The American media and politics is all about dirty play. I would say it's a Fear mongering war over who can scare the most people into voting for them, or win a popularity contests as it were high school.. So few politicians in America ever seriously attempt to tackle the real problems here in America. It's indeed in pretty bad shape.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 11:39:25 PM
Quote from: "elliebean"The vitriol between the voters is manufactured by politicians with the help of mainstream (and other) media through image branding and marketing to create the illusion of a two-party system, where the real differences between the two parties are miniscule; but the people buy it and think they're really involved in the process, which they are also led to believe is important.


But I could just be cynical.  :devil:
I must say I do tend to see little difference, from this distance, between the democrats or republicans. What do they see as the differences between each other?
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 11:42:44 PM
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "Tank"I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.

It's a sign that we need to regulate who can and cannot vote. I don't mean to sound like an elitist but I would be in favor of a stringent voting test that would exclude those who are just slow and ignorant. Originally they had such tests but they were designed to keep minorities from voting. I propose a test where no moron could vote. Politicians pander to these idiots because they are the majority. So often they paint themselves into these idiot corners where they ramble on about some of the dumbest positions imaginable.

Americans also try to classify themselves in really, really simplistic ways. I'm a Libertarian but I'll vote for the right person who will uphold the US Constitution via their voting records. If they truly are concerned statesmen who wish to help this country and its people, I'll be all too happy to vote. I don't try to bog myself down to just one party. Then again, I'm a mix bag type when it comes to politics. Stay out of my bedroom, my bank account, my browser, etc. Don't give me a bureaucracy for every aspect of my life. Don't tell me I can't enjoy XYZ when it harms no one (or if it harms anyone it is just me harming myself ie Drinking and Smoking). I have no real party affiliation though I tend to vote Republican only because they seem to be more likely to defend my gun rights and other issues I hold important.
Thank you for this insights. Just assimilating them along with the others here [IMG]http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2922/cheersi.gif[/IMG
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 20, 2010, 11:43:28 PM
Quote from: "TheJackel"
Quote from: "Tank"I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.

I wouldn't disagree one bit.. Have you ever been to Canada for example? The American media and politics is all about dirty play. I would say it's a Fear mongering war over who can scare the most people into voting for them, or win a popularity contests as it were high school.. So few politicians in America ever seriously attempt to tackle the real problems here in America. It's indeed in pretty bad shape.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg32.imageshack.us%2Fimg32%2F2922%2Fcheersi.gif&hash=d22c932723fd55512134b1ae98b018246ccbb424)
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Businessocks on June 21, 2010, 03:50:01 AM
Quote from: "Tank"I must say I do tend to see little difference, from this distance, between the democrats or republicans. What do they see as the differences between each other?

I'll try to answer in as unbiased as a manner as I can.  These are just the talking points, sweeping generalizations, and not indicative necessarily of how I view anyone from either party.  Clear as mud? :headbang:
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: pinkocommie on June 21, 2010, 04:09:28 AM
Quote from: "Businessocks"
Quote from: "Tank"I must say I do tend to see little difference, from this distance, between the democrats or republicans. What do they see as the differences between each other?

I'll try to answer in as unbiased as a manner as I can.  These are just the talking points, sweeping generalizations, and not indicative necessarily of how I view anyone from either party.  Clear as mud? :headbang:

I agree with pretty much everything written here.   :yay:
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: KDbeads on June 21, 2010, 04:15:21 AM
Quote from: "Businessocks"In short, R's have a more direct pipeline and personal relationship with Jesus; D's are a bunch of pot-smoking heathens who are sodomizing themselves into hell.   lol

While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way ;)
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: pinkocommie on June 21, 2010, 04:28:33 AM
Quote from: "KDbeads"
Quote from: "Businessocks"In short, R's have a more direct pipeline and personal relationship with Jesus; D's are a bunch of pot-smoking heathens who are sodomizing themselves into hell.   lol

While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way :D  Seriously, my state is reliably D leaning with pretty much the same attitude toward gun control.  My sweetie, who is from South Carolina, was delighted to see so many Obama stickers on cars that also had NRA stickers.  I guess that's one of the reasons why I tend to identify as liberal instead of democrat.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Will on June 21, 2010, 04:55:57 AM
Quote from: "Tank"I wouldn't start this thread on any other forum I have been on as it would be asking for a flame war. However I hope that will not be the case here.

I have often observed the absolute hatred with which Republicans dis Democrats and visa versa. Why the vitriol? Is it just a symptom of the style of America argument which is often very adversarial by comparison the the way Brit's tend to discuss things. Or is it something people really feel or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Comments much appreciated.
It's harder to hold our politicians accountable here in the States because they're more entrenched. It has a lot to do with being so economically powerful, the side effect of which is massive corporatist corruption. When politicians are doing mostly corporate bidding, they have to distract people from their misconduct by having these big, dramatic, overblown battles and making truly absurd statements. It's theater intended to distract from what's really going on, convincing people it's us vs. them at all costs. When Republican representative Joe Wilson yelled "You Lie!" in the middle of President Obama's State of the Union last September, it wasn't about actually disagreeing with the President, it was about getting the right wing fanatics up in a tizzy and pissing off people on the left.

As American economic power wanes, expect to see this more commonly in other countries.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: KDbeads on June 21, 2010, 05:17:27 AM
Quote from: "pinkocommie"
Quote from: "KDbeads"While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way :D  Seriously, my state is reliably D leaning with pretty much the same attitude toward gun control.  My sweetie, who is from South Carolina, was delighted to see so many Obama stickers on cars that also had NRA stickers.  I guess that's one of the reasons why I tend to identify as liberal instead of democrat.

Whoo hooo, someone from south cacalaky who swings the other way!!!.  Honest, I can say that, graduated high school in SC and got my degrees there too ;)   Off campus, there aren't many non republicans!
Here I'm a funky colored dot in a red state.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 21, 2010, 05:53:03 AM
Quote from: "KDbeads"While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way ;)

But you will need armor piercing bullets (most rifle rounds will slice through soft body armor quite nicely, FYI) if the government decides you are not a suitable person.

When the people are armed with arms and knowledge, they are the most fearsome force the state has to fear. And rightly so, we hold the power not our elected officials. The Founding Fathers intended a government afraid of its people not the other way around.

I do not hunt. My arms are all designed for combat. I see no reason why I should be pigeon-holed to certain types of weapons because Uncle Sam says so.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: TheJackel on June 21, 2010, 06:04:30 AM
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "KDbeads"While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way ;)
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 21, 2010, 06:06:41 AM
Quote from: "TheJackel"
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "KDbeads"While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way ;)

Obviously not what I was getting at but I can probably make biological arms. Unwashed Bible thumpers during the middle ages did it, I imagine a strapping young man who can read tomes better than they could produce worse. Not that I would.

I am referring to small arms.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 21, 2010, 08:35:28 AM
What a wonderful insight this thread is turning out to be. Effort, thoughts and contributions much appreciated.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 21, 2010, 08:43:53 AM
Quote from: "Tank"What a wonderful insight this thread is turning out to be. Effort, thoughts and contributions much appreciated.

If you ever come to Texas, we'll take you out, get you drunk and shoot my vast array of firearms in the woods.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 21, 2010, 09:00:20 AM
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "Tank"What a wonderful insight this thread is turning out to be. Effort, thoughts and contributions much appreciated.

If you ever come to Texas, we'll take you out, get you drunk and shoot my vast array of firearms in the woods.
I would love to do that!! I'll do the guns before the booze though, I'd like to be able to remember the experience!!
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on June 21, 2010, 09:24:41 AM
Quote from: "Tank"
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "Tank"What a wonderful insight this thread is turning out to be. Effort, thoughts and contributions much appreciated.

If you ever come to Texas, we'll take you out, get you drunk and shoot my vast array of firearms in the woods.
I would love to do that!! I'll do the guns before the booze though, I'd like to be able to remember the experience!!

... not to mention hit the target?
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Businessocks on June 21, 2010, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "KDbeads"While I want gun rights within reason (seriously, I don't need an armor piercing fully automatic whatever to kill me a deer), I also prefer laws off my body, away from my mind, out of my house and away from my property.  Gee, I'm a mixed bag aren't I?  Hence why I ignore political leanings and read everything before deciding either way ;)

But you will need armor piercing bullets (most rifle rounds will slice through soft body armor quite nicely, FYI) if the government decides you are not a suitable person.

When the people are armed with arms and knowledge, they are the most fearsome force the state has to fear. And rightly so, we hold the power not our elected officials. The Founding Fathers intended a government afraid of its people not the other way around.

I do not hunt. My arms are all designed for combat. I see no reason why I should be pigeon-holed to certain types of weapons because Uncle Sam says so.

These two views brilliantly show the different gun rights views of many D's and R's.  D's want guns for hunting and sport.  R's want guns for hunting and defense.  Both make valid points, in my opinion.  

One other major point I forgot to list last night is that R's define themselves as pro-small gov't and accuse D's of ballooning the size and expenses of the gov't.  I think the truth, however, is that they like to build different parts of the gov't. up.  R's like a good, strong defense, and D's like many gov't. social programs.  

And someone made the point about identifying more as a Liberal than a D.  I total think that label is a good fit for many who like the human rights aspects of the D party but who also appreciate the idea of a smaller gov't who interferes as little as possible with one's personal choices in the bedroom and in recreational choices.  I find it ironic that the Liberals are pitted as dire enemies to R's.  I think Liberals are those who take parts from both parties more than any other group.  Now the Tea Bag movement, that is the opposite of a Liberal, I think.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on June 21, 2010, 05:34:26 PM
Both parties want a bigger government.  Democrats want it to run the economy; Republicans want it to run your sex-life.

Of course, that is a crass over-generalization, the sine qua non of an American political discussion.  Nuances need not apply.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: KDbeads on June 21, 2010, 05:35:36 PM
Quote from: "Businessocks"Now the Tea Bag movement, that is the opposite of a Liberal, I think.
Unfortunately I think you are right on that one.  The tea baggers I've met are seriously ill-informed on the issues, lack enough knowledge to grasp certain concepts and in general really have no clue how to behave as human beings.  But these are the ones I've met, might be different elsewhere.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 21, 2010, 06:09:29 PM
Quote from: "KDbeads"
Quote from: "Businessocks"Now the Tea Bag movement, that is the opposite of a Liberal, I think.
Unfortunately I think you are right on that one.  The tea baggers I've met are seriously ill-informed on the issues, lack enough knowledge to grasp certain concepts and in general really have no clue how to behave as human beings.  But these are the ones I've met, might be different elsewhere.

Really? The ones I've met (I'm not a tea bag party member but there are A  TON in Austin) have been a little eccentric but they know the political scene inside and out. It's like people who study celebs except these guys have an amazing amount of knowledge of politics. Aside from the assumption they're all angry (the ones I met were very calm but determined in their views) they were actually cheerful folks who want their voices to be heard. I don't disagree with some of their views. I would like to see a much smaller federal government that doesn't meddle with my affairs like a nosy nanny.

I don't see either party as liberal (I know plenty of conservative Democrats) or conservative (I know plenty of liberal Republicans) but they do tend to lean one side more often than the other. I don't disagree, they plan on expanding government powers and such. They have different ends (sort of, bigger defense vs. bigger social programs as someone pointed out) and ways of going about it.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on June 21, 2010, 06:12:31 PM
Quote from: "KDbeads"
Quote from: "Businessocks"Now the Tea Bag movement, that is the opposite of a Liberal, I think.
Unfortunately I think you are right on that one.  The tea baggers I've met are seriously ill-informed on the issues, lack enough knowledge to grasp certain concepts and in general really have no clue how to behave as human beings.  But these are the ones I've met, might be different elsewhere.

Some of them are intelligent, disillusioned conservatives, but the general embrace given Sarah Palin indicates that critical thinking is not the strong suit of the majority of members.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: KDbeads on June 21, 2010, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "KDbeads"The tea baggers I've met are seriously ill-informed on the issues, lack enough knowledge to grasp certain concepts and in general really have no clue how to behave as human beings.  But these are the ones I've met, might be different elsewhere.

Really? The ones I've met (I'm not a tea bag party member but there are A  TON in Austin) have been a little eccentric but they know the political scene inside and out. It's like people who study celebs except these guys have an amazing amount of knowledge of politics. Aside from the assumption they're all angry (the ones I met were very calm but determined in their views) they were actually cheerful folks who want their voices to be heard. I don't disagree with some of their views. I would like to see a much smaller federal government that doesn't meddle with my affairs like a nosy nanny.

Most of the people out here aren't that educated, there are a large amount of people preparing right now for the end of the world, new world order, thing.  (would you like to know how many times I've been offered that conspiracy dvd on bilderback?)  There are quite a few that honestly think the government being run by the mideast, hence why they want to be tea baggers so they can rid the government of the imposters.  Another set that honestly thinks like Palin and want bible law instated instead of what there is now, claiming it will reduce government influence on their lives, most of those I have to say are women.... apparently they don't know their biblical law.....

Again, that's just here in the back waters, I doubt every place is like this  :D
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 21, 2010, 06:43:55 PM
Quote from: "KDbeads"
Quote from: "Big Mac"
Quote from: "KDbeads"The tea baggers I've met are seriously ill-informed on the issues, lack enough knowledge to grasp certain concepts and in general really have no clue how to behave as human beings.  But these are the ones I've met, might be different elsewhere.

Really? The ones I've met (I'm not a tea bag party member but there are A  TON in Austin) have been a little eccentric but they know the political scene inside and out. It's like people who study celebs except these guys have an amazing amount of knowledge of politics. Aside from the assumption they're all angry (the ones I met were very calm but determined in their views) they were actually cheerful folks who want their voices to be heard. I don't disagree with some of their views. I would like to see a much smaller federal government that doesn't meddle with my affairs like a nosy nanny.

Most of the people out here aren't that educated, there are a large amount of people preparing right now for the end of the world, new world order, thing.  (would you like to know how many times I've been offered that conspiracy dvd on bilderback?)  There are quite a few that honestly think the government being run by the mideast, hence why they want to be tea baggers so they can rid the government of the imposters.  Another set that honestly thinks like Palin and want bible law instated instead of what there is now, claiming it will reduce government influence on their lives, most of those I have to say are women.... apparently they don't know their biblical law.....

Again, that's just here in the back waters, I doubt every place is like this  :D

I've run into those morons as well. The Alex Jones retards who go on and on about chemtrails (these idiots think that contrails are this evil poisonous gas being pumped into the sky by the evil NWO boogie man). Frankly I can't stand those types. They say some of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I'm a survivalist type myself. But it's for social upheaval and disaster preparedness really. That and I like the idea of reducing my environmental damage by experimenting with solar/crank power devices to see how I can save money on electricity and be more green.
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: KDbeads on June 21, 2010, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: "Big Mac"I've run into those morons as well. The Alex Jones retards who go on and on about chemtrails (these idiots think that contrails are this evil poisonous gas being pumped into the sky by the evil NWO boogie man). Frankly I can't stand those types. They say some of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
yeah.... this one is one of my favorites...
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_ ... ms/#181232 (http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/Woman_Doesnt_Understand_Prisms/#181232)
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Tank on June 21, 2010, 07:08:11 PM
This thread has taken on a very interesting life of its own  :pop:
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: KDbeads on June 21, 2010, 07:10:01 PM
Yeah, but people like the crazy loon in the video above actually VOTE...........
Title: Re: American Politics for a naive Limy.
Post by: Big Mac on June 21, 2010, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: "KDbeads"Yeah, but people like the crazy loon in the video above actually VOTE...........

That's the most frustrating part. They are so bloody stupid they don't deserve the right to vote.