K-E Diet through feeding tube.

[Asmodean]

As long as they like what they see in a mirror after, it's ok though, no?

[ThinkAnarchy]

{snip}
I hope no skinny women or men with skinny wives get offended because I'm speaking my mind here as well...

There is no one form of objective beauty. There are some stereotypes and they rise and fall with time and culture. I have met stunningly beautiful ball-busting bitches and the sexiest of women you wouldn't look at twice. It's an oft used truism that 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and that, to me, is why this thread is such an unmitigated mine field. So stating one's own personal preference is fine. While criticising another persons opinion is really futile as preferences differ so much.

And I'm not criticizing how people choose to look. People are free to look however they choose, I don't care. I just felt like complaining about how there seem to be fewer beautiful women today due to the odd standards of beauty currently set. And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it annoys me that so many attractive women change their appearance when they hit their early 20's inadvertently making themselves less attractive to me.

I understood that. Sorry if it came over as a criticism of your observation, that was not my intention.

Don't worry, it didn't come across like that. I just wanted to clarify for others, just to err on the side of caution.

[DeterminedJuliet]

{snip}
I hope no skinny women or men with skinny wives get offended because I'm speaking my mind here as well...

There is no one form of objective beauty. There are some stereotypes and they rise and fall with time and culture. I have met stunningly beautiful ball-busting bitches and the sexiest of women you wouldn't look at twice. It's an oft used truism that 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and that, to me, is why this thread is such an unmitigated mine field. So stating one's own personal preference is fine. While criticising another persons opinion is really futile as preferences differ so much.

And I'm not criticizing how people choose to look. People are free to look however they choose, I don't care. I just felt like complaining about how there seem to be fewer beautiful women today due to the odd standards of beauty currently set. And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it annoys me that so many attractive women change their appearance when they hit their early 20's inadvertently making themselves less attractive to me.

Yeah, I don't think anyone really read it that way. At least I didn't

And I do remember seeing a study where researchers showed both sexes pictures of women and asked them which set of pictures were more attractive. One set of pictures featured supermodel-skinny women and the other set of pictures featured "shapely" women. Most women said the supermodel-skinny women looked more attractive and most men said that the shapely women looked more attractive.

Of course, then we get into whether the women gave those answers because THEY actually thought the supermodel skinny women looked better, or if they made that decision because, through the media, they were conditioned to think that's what men want. It's sort of a weird catch-22.

Personally, I have spent a lot of time and effort not giving a flying fuck what people think about how I look. Sometimes I like dressing up all girlie girl. Sometimes I like slumping around in sweat pants. As for my weight, I like being able to ride my bike or walk for 40 minutes without it exhausting me, so that's something that I take into consideration for my life. I like eating a balanced diet because I feel better when I do and I know it has better health benefits, but I DON'T give myself hell when I decide I want to eat a chocolate bar/pizza/drink a couple of pints.

I didn't always feel this way, but I'm happier and I haven't heard any complaints from my husband.  

[Siz]

I don't recall asking you to be sorry. I was simply pointing out to Sweetdeath that there is a reason why women are compelled to extremes. I also didn't ask anyone to normalize obesity and, quite frankly, I feel like you are putting words in my mouth.

Edit: the kind of "fat" I was talking about was not "obese".

I was addressing the general argument about 'media pressure', not your post in particular.

To continue, I do believe that the problems we are now experiencing with the obese fat (as opposed to personal image dysmorphia 'fat') are the result of passed-down ignorance. So, a person who was raised surrounded by overeaters grows into unhealthy eating habits and knows nothing else. It's difficult for a person to take responsibility for their eating habits when they're simply living by learned behaviours. If this is going to change we must be frank, open and honest, not only about the fundamental causes and the cure but also about ones own responsibility. If we can help a person to 'own' their own eating habits this is step one in finding personal solutions. There is only one cure. Appeasing sensibilities and endulging the 'it's not my fault' myth does not help.

Thus, I call for pragmatic candour on this subject. The truth often hurts, but should not be avoided for that reason alone.

[ThinkAnarchy]

I don't recall asking you to be sorry. I was simply pointing out to Sweetdeath that there is a reason why women are compelled to extremes. I also didn't ask anyone to normalize obesity and, quite frankly, I feel like you are putting words in my mouth.

Edit: the kind of "fat" I was talking about was not "obese".

I was addressing the general argument about 'media pressure', not your post in particular.

To continue, I do believe that the problems we are now experiencing with the obese fat (as opposed to personal image dysmorphia 'fat') are the result of passed-down ignorance. So, a person who was raised surrounded by overeaters grows into unhealthy eating habits and knows nothing else. It's difficult for a person to take responsibility for their eating habits when they're simply living by learned behaviours. If this is going to change we must be frank, open and honest, not only about the fundamental causes and the cure but also about ones own responsibility. If we can help a person to 'own' their own eating habits this is step one in finding personal solutions. There is only one cure. Appeasing sensibilities and endulging the 'it's not my fault' myth does not help.

Thus, I call for pragmatic candour on this subject. The truth often hurts, but should not be avoided for that reason alone.

I also think you have to take into consideration an individuals economic level. It is admittedly better they have food options that are cheap but unhealthy. It' better than starving and being skinny. But low cost food tends to be unhealthy and cause the consumer to store more fat. It's why I get annoyed when people criticize a poor person for being obese and saying, "It's clear they aren't suffering for food." It annoys me more because I used to think that way when I was younger.

I'm not saying you are incorrect. There are many people out there who are obese due to pure laziness or not giving a shit. Others do have legitimate health conditions that cause weight problems and others simply can't afford to eat healthy foods.

For an example, there was this guy who would go to the same restaurant twice a week. He always ordered the 24 oz steak for two, two baked potatoes, an entire loaf of bread, and used nearly a stick of butter for all of it. He had to use the backs of chairs for support to get to his table. He would have only ever annoyed me if he complained about his weight though. 

Personally I may have refused him service if I owned the restaurant. I know other customers lost their appetites while he was there, but he may have singlehandedly kept the restaurant in business.

And yes, I agree that these topics should be talked about.

On a side note, I dated a girl back in high school who I still think is one of the most beautiful women ever. She had an obese mother, I can't remember if it was caused by a medical condition or gluttony, but it's unimportant to this story. The girl, let's call her A, had major image problems. She wasn't fat, but had naturally wide hips and a flat tummy. Due to her fear of becoming her mother she would purge her body for multiple days on nothing but water. She flirted with anorexia while never losing the weight because it was simply the way her body was built, and a beautiful body it was, and still seems to be from her current facebook photos. Needless to say, it bothered the hell out me she couldn't just be happy with the way she looked. Her breasts were always to small and her hips to wide, no matter how often I tried to tell her she was beautiful and how often other men tried to get her to cheat on me, she continued to have the terrible image of herself.

I really can't wait for this skeletor fad to end... Thankfully I have a nice full figured wife that knows she is pretty without being bitch about it.

Thus ends another rambling post by ThinkAnarchy. 

[DeterminedJuliet]

I was addressing the general argument about 'media pressure', not your post in particular.

To continue, I do believe that the problems we are now experiencing with the obese fat (as opposed to personal image dysmorphia 'fat') are the result of passed-down ignorance. So, a person who was raised surrounded by overeaters grows into unhealthy eating habits and knows nothing else. It's difficult for a person to take responsibility for their eating habits when they're simply living by learned behaviours. If this is going to change we must be frank, open and honest, not only about the fundamental causes and the cure but also about ones own responsibility. If we can help a person to 'own' their own eating habits this is step one in finding personal solutions. There is only one cure. Appeasing sensibilities and endulging the 'it's not my fault' myth does not help.

Thus, I call for pragmatic candour on this subject. The truth often hurts, but should not be avoided for that reason alone.

I don't disagree in principle, but it's very hard to talk about a healthy weight without addressing body image issues. I mean, being anorexic and being morbidly obese are both unhealthy, but the reaction that we have to those people are widely different. People who are dangerously underweight are either glamorized or begrudgingly accepted, whereas it's becoming acceptable to publicly shame and humiliate obese people. It makes me wonder where the motives are: do we tell people who are fat that they're making bad choices because we are genuinely concerned about the health of the public, or are we doing it because we find it unacceptable for them to look that way? I think it's very hard to know.

[Velma]

{snip}
I hope no skinny women or men with skinny wives get offended because I'm speaking my mind here as well...

There is no one form of objective beauty. There are some stereotypes and they rise and fall with time and culture. I have met stunningly beautiful ball-busting bitches and the sexiest of women you wouldn't look at twice. It's an oft used truism that 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and that, to me, is why this thread is such an unmitigated mine field. So stating one's own personal preference is fine. While criticising another persons opinion is really futile as preferences differ so much.

And never forget THE major sex organ is the brain 

Very, very true. 

I need to lose weight, I am working on it.  I am obese.  However, my husband finds me sexy as I am - I just want to make sure I'm around a very long time to enjoy his company.