Another Mass Shooting

[Arturo]

Actually, there is a clear link between mass shootings and mental illness
Repeat after me: Mass shooters are not disproportionately mentally ill."

This is the opening line of a meme that's been circulating in the aftermath of the shooting in Parkland, Fla.

But this and other efforts to downplay the role of mental illness in mass shootings are simply misleading. There is a clear relationship between mental illness and mass public shootings.

At the broadest level, peer-reviewed research has shown that individuals with major mental disorders (those that substantially interfere with life activities) are more likely to commit violent acts, especially if they abuse drugs. When we focus more narrowly on mass public shootings — an extreme and, fortunately, rare form of violence — we see a relatively high rate of mental illness.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-duwe-rocque-mass-shootings-mental-illness-20180223-story.html

OK, the above includes all mass public shootings as defined in the article, not a lot about teenagers specifically. But if adolescence does cause problems in affect, mood and behaviour the possibility of a link would not be stupid. But it also hints at an attempt to dissociate mass killings from mental health problems.

Many mass killers die themseoves so there seems to be mainly anecdotal evidence about their perdonalities and demeanor/behaviour. I have not noticed any psych- reports on those mass killers taken into custody, perhaps because I have not followed individual cases in detail or because such details have not been put into the public domain.

And this highlights another point in Trump's crap about London, taking out terrorist action and gang related killings the London numbers would come down. It would take a great number of armed police to guard against those sort of actions. As many as in America, or maybe more, per square mile in all public areas. All America's armed police don't seem to make much of a dent in preventing mass shootings - because it is not possible to do so in a society where firearms are so readily, legally or otherwise, available.

Needed, a comparison, or analysis, of the mental health differences or similarities, in reason/purpose/motive, between a 15 - 25 yo running amock with a firearm in a school or an older person with personal relationship or work grievences in a public place, or even the nutter just "having fun". Then compare those with a person acting out of ideological or religious motives (though one might question the sanity of such people as well or criminal socio/psychopathic motivation.

The wife driven to homicide might well have mitigation in that her husband's actions over a period caused her temporary mental health problems. The other "justified" non-judicial/wartime killing of one person by another might be in self-defence when there is an immediate danger of lethal attack and no viable alternative defence. Like the old guy who was not charged for killing the intruder who attacked him recently.

Another thing is that these things don't happen that often. The death rate continues to drop even though there is a war going on in the middle east, and all these mass murders are suddenly being reported. They actually happened a lot but nobody knows about previous ones because they were never put on the news. Just recently they took a liking to putting one on TV every chance they get. Probably because they have to compete with the internet media sources like youtube which get drastically higher numbers than any TV station now days.

According to Wiki there have been 26 mass killings involving 10 or more deaths since 1949, 12 of those being before Facebook (2004), Youtube (2005) or Twitter (2006) started.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

If you take another Wiki  list there have been 53 mass killings (including other than by shooting) involving 5 deaths or more since 1850. This list also includes racial, extra judicial by army, ethnic and other motives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States

So, according to the above, about 25% of the number of mass killings since 1850 have happened since 2004 when (anti)social media started. So that is in the last 13 out of 167ish years, <8%. These have predominantly involved semi-automatic weapons. It might be interesting to find out what percentage were due to purely personal issues.

Prima facie evidence that (anti)social media may be a factor since 2004, through the wider opportunities it provides for bullying, exclusion (actual or perceived), attention seeking, copycat behaviour . . .  ? There is a case going on here involving the planning of a potential mass attack at a school where  copycat behaviour of an American killing has been said to be involved - though here it would have involved knives rather than guns.

It may also be more dominant now in the media due to things like social media. Information becomes more widespread much faster. Which was what was said about twitter not long ago. So it may be that the news shows have no choice but to mention them. And also due to the information being spread much faster, is that there are those who identify with the previous killer and then attempt to emulate the behavior. And then more people identify with that and it literally creates a deadly cycle. Something like the Trump effect. There aren't a lot of them, but just enough to get noticed a lot because of how loud they are. it certainly seems to be influecing these attacks in some way. And it may be law enforcement to blame ironically. As long ago I heard that they were against taking some sort of action on this stuff as they said social media "actually helps catch these criminals". This was when the facebook killer was live streaming his murders and they protested to censoring these things. So yes social media is partly to blame but so is law enforcement.

[Dave]

Arturo, those lists are historical, if you like I will do an incidence frequency plot. I think that nay show that, in recent years, there has veen a true increase in the number of incidents, that this is not a reporting phenomena.

In things like child sexual abuse there is almost certainly such a reporting phenomena - the actual incidences may be pretty conatant (maybe barring large wars). The more recent willingness to self-report such means an increase in media mention rather than in events. Similarly with the sexual abuse of women.

150 years ago it might only have been the literate with access to non-parochial printed media who heard of mass killings in far flung corners of the States. 100 years ago it might have been only those with the above access and/or a radio receiver. 50 years ago TV and well established national news broadcasts were becoming quite common. It is true that, today, the access to the media is far, far more common but at least as unreliable. The media, especially the (anti)social variety, may have an influence on susceptible individuals, and frequent mention may exacerbate that, but the incident frequency is real if those Wiki lists are accurate. The current apparent ease of access to weapons specifically designed to kill many people as efficiently as possible (even on semi-automatic) maybe increases the average killings/incident/year.

[Arturo]

Arturo, those lists are historical, if you like I will do an incidence frequency plot. I think that nay show that, in recent years, there has veen a true increase in the number of incidents, that this is not a reporting phenomena.

I don't see why that would be necessary. I agree with what you said.

[Dave]

"It was God's will", well, that is a parsphrase to the what the, now gun carrying in church, pastor of the church in Sutherland Springs said. So that's OK then, those not killed "He" spared to go on pushing the psychodrug word.

Prayer and a packing pastor: A church's response to a mass shooting

Pastor Frank Pomeroy now carries a pistol to each and every church function.

The gun isn't new; he's had it for years. But it was not until the shooting rampage nearly four months ago that killed more than two dozen at First Baptist Church including a pregnant woman — and his own daughter — that he began wearing it regularly, in a holster on his hip.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900011232/prayer-and-a-packing-pastor-a-churchs-response-to-a-mass-shooting.html

There is also a programme on it on BBC World Service but it is on air so too early for a link yet. It is full of self-deceiving sophistry and justification for guns (the hunting aspect if which I thought to be the only part with a smidgeon of valid justification). The prog's sign off was a member of the congregation dinging sonething about,  "God will take care of you . . ."

Yeah, dying for your god at the hands of a nutter in a gun heavy society is good, folks. Halle-fucking-lullia!

[joeactor]

And 10 dead in Texas. If only there was *something* we could do...
(sheesh)

[Dave]

And 10 dead in Texas. If only there was *something* we could do...
(sheesh)

Yes, I felt real anger when I heard the Turd in Chief's words. Maybe one day your congressmen and women, of both parties, will find the moral guts to say, "Enough!", and actually mean it, actually do something about it.

Hope there are further mass public demos against guns.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Here's an email I received from my Senate candidate, Beto O'Rourke, who is attempting to unseat Lyin' Ted Cruz:

Bruce,

As of this writing, at least ten killed and many more injured at a high school in Santa Fe, Texas. We're still learning more, but we know that students went to school this morning and didn't make it to the end of the day. Didn't make it to graduation, didn't make it to the rest of their lives.

My thoughts are with the community of Santa Fe. I'm thinking of the students, teachers, administrators, parents, and law enforcement. I'm deeply sorry that they are experiencing this.

I'm sorry that there are parents, brothers, and sisters who are grieving, who won't see their children and siblings at the next family dinner or baseball game. I'm sorry that there are teachers everywhere worrying about whether their classroom will be next instead of solely focusing on teaching those kids. I'm sorry that some of the students at Santa Fe weren't surprised that this happened because they expected it at some point. I'm sorry that more people have been killed at our schools this year than have been killed while serving in our military.

Either we accept this, and continue to be sorry, and prayerful and thoughtful. Or we act. That's it.

There are 535 members of Congress. Who represent 320 million people. All of us. Each member responsible for representing the interests of this country, of people, of human beings, of kids. Not responsible for PACs or lobbies, corporations or special interests. Not responsible for the next election.

Remembering that, we can meet silence with action. Tragedy with common purpose. The disagreements with compromise and consensus that allow us to do better -- not perfect, not your ideal, not my ideal, but better than what we have today. Shouldn't be too much to ask for the kids who died today, for the kids too scared to go to school on Monday, should it?

What if we required universal background checks to ensure that firearms only get into the hands of those won't harm themselves or someone else. Close all loopholes and exceptions. Every single gun purchase has a background check.

We can stop the new sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines to ensure that firearms designed to kill as effectively and efficiently as possible on the battlefield aren't used in our schools, our streets, our churches, and our concerts.

We can give federal help to local school districts to improve on-campus safety. Local stakeholder solutions with assistance to make the necessary investments.

We can fully support federal research on gun violence so that we can better understand and address its root causes.

We can improve record sharing from the background check system, the ability for law enforcement to more effectively act on information that could help in the prevention of gun sales to those who shouldn't own them or stop those who do and pose a threat.

We can find a way to implement Extreme Risk Protective Order (ERPO) or Red Flag Laws. Successfully implementing these can stop shootings and might have a big impact on the suicides that make up 2/3 of our daily 96 gun deaths.

These are some ideas I've heard from my constituents in El Paso, from students at the town hall I held at Montwood High earlier this year, from those I've met along the road throughout the counties of Texas.

These ideas won't prevent every shooting, won't be perfect, aren't easy conversations to have. And there's no way that I would suggest I have all the answers. No one person does.

But any hesitation I have in stepping forward is overwhelmed by the justice demanded by the daily tragedy of gun violence. Any question on how to lead has been answered by gun violence survivors, young people, high school students who are already leading us (forcing us) towards the difficult, important conversation that this country owes them, owes all of us.

I want to use our proud history of gun ownership, gun rights, gun safety, and gun responsibility in Texas as a place from which to lead. I want to sit down with any person of any party in any place and at any time to figure out how we can make sure that this does not continue to happen.

It'll look a lot like our town hall on the steps of the Cottle County courthouse in Paducah on Sunday. I was asked about my stance on gun safety by a woman in the community. She certainly didn't agree with everything I said, and we came to different conclusions about the next steps. But we were able to have the discussion with one another. And we acknowledged that both of us love Texas and want what's best for our country, our schools, our kids.

Town hall with Beto in Cottle County
The open dialogue we've been having across Texas is missing from Congress. The House of Representatives and the Senate owe this country a real discussion, debate and vote on these issues. I will continue to do my best to meet this crisis with the urgency it deserves.

All of Texas grieves today. All of Texas should join in leading the country to act tomorrow.

Sincerely,

Beto

[Tom62]

And 10 dead in Texas. If only there was *something* we could do...
(sheesh)

We could send thoughts and prayers,,,,,

[Dave]

And 10 dead in Texas. If only there was *something* we could do...
(sheesh)

We could send thoughts and prayers,,,,,

And thank "God" it was only 10.

[Dave]

Bruce, I am allways sceptical about politicians, especially wannabe ones. Let's just hope Beto can match fine wotds with fine actions.

[Arturo]

I bet you a gun would have stopped those explosives. Oh wait. I mean people. 10 people.

[Tank]

Here's an email I received from my Senate candidate, Beto O'Rourke, who is attempting to unseat Lyin' Ted Cruz:

Bruce,

As of this writing, at least ten killed and many more injured at a high school in Santa Fe, Texas. We're still learning more, but we know that students went to school this morning and didn't make it to the end of the day. Didn't make it to graduation, didn't make it to the rest of their lives.

My thoughts are with the community of Santa Fe. I'm thinking of the students, teachers, administrators, parents, and law enforcement. I'm deeply sorry that they are experiencing this.

I'm sorry that there are parents, brothers, and sisters who are grieving, who won't see their children and siblings at the next family dinner or baseball game. I'm sorry that there are teachers everywhere worrying about whether their classroom will be next instead of solely focusing on teaching those kids. I'm sorry that some of the students at Santa Fe weren't surprised that this happened because they expected it at some point. I'm sorry that more people have been killed at our schools this year than have been killed while serving in our military.

Either we accept this, and continue to be sorry, and prayerful and thoughtful. Or we act. That's it.

There are 535 members of Congress. Who represent 320 million people. All of us. Each member responsible for representing the interests of this country, of people, of human beings, of kids. Not responsible for PACs or lobbies, corporations or special interests. Not responsible for the next election.

Remembering that, we can meet silence with action. Tragedy with common purpose. The disagreements with compromise and consensus that allow us to do better -- not perfect, not your ideal, not my ideal, but better than what we have today. Shouldn't be too much to ask for the kids who died today, for the kids too scared to go to school on Monday, should it?

What if we required universal background checks to ensure that firearms only get into the hands of those won't harm themselves or someone else. Close all loopholes and exceptions. Every single gun purchase has a background check.

We can stop the new sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines to ensure that firearms designed to kill as effectively and efficiently as possible on the battlefield aren't used in our schools, our streets, our churches, and our concerts.

We can give federal help to local school districts to improve on-campus safety. Local stakeholder solutions with assistance to make the necessary investments.

We can fully support federal research on gun violence so that we can better understand and address its root causes.

We can improve record sharing from the background check system, the ability for law enforcement to more effectively act on information that could help in the prevention of gun sales to those who shouldn't own them or stop those who do and pose a threat.

We can find a way to implement Extreme Risk Protective Order (ERPO) or Red Flag Laws. Successfully implementing these can stop shootings and might have a big impact on the suicides that make up 2/3 of our daily 96 gun deaths.

These are some ideas I've heard from my constituents in El Paso, from students at the town hall I held at Montwood High earlier this year, from those I've met along the road throughout the counties of Texas.

These ideas won't prevent every shooting, won't be perfect, aren't easy conversations to have. And there's no way that I would suggest I have all the answers. No one person does.

But any hesitation I have in stepping forward is overwhelmed by the justice demanded by the daily tragedy of gun violence. Any question on how to lead has been answered by gun violence survivors, young people, high school students who are already leading us (forcing us) towards the difficult, important conversation that this country owes them, owes all of us.

I want to use our proud history of gun ownership, gun rights, gun safety, and gun responsibility in Texas as a place from which to lead. I want to sit down with any person of any party in any place and at any time to figure out how we can make sure that this does not continue to happen.

It'll look a lot like our town hall on the steps of the Cottle County courthouse in Paducah on Sunday. I was asked about my stance on gun safety by a woman in the community. She certainly didn't agree with everything I said, and we came to different conclusions about the next steps. But we were able to have the discussion with one another. And we acknowledged that both of us love Texas and want what's best for our country, our schools, our kids.

Town hall with Beto in Cottle County
The open dialogue we've been having across Texas is missing from Congress. The House of Representatives and the Senate owe this country a real discussion, debate and vote on these issues. I will continue to do my best to meet this crisis with the urgency it deserves.

All of Texas grieves today. All of Texas should join in leading the country to act tomorrow.

Sincerely,

Beto

Steps in the right direction.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Bruce, I am allways sceptical about politicians, especially wannabe ones. Let's just hope Beto can match fine wotds with fine actions.

He seems to be a different brand.  I've met him and he is the first pol I've actively supported in a long time.  He has a tough row to hoe in getting elected in Texas, but if anyone can, it's him.

[Dave]

Bruce, I am allways sceptical about politicians, especially wannabe ones. Let's just hope Beto can match fine wotds with fine actions.

He seems to be a different brand.  I've met him and he is the first pol I've actively supported in a long time.  He has a tough row to hoe in getting elected in Texas, but if anyone can, it's him.

On the guns front I was wondering if Cruz was feeling in a cleft stick - if he supports the status quo he will be against those who feel strongly about the Sante Fé shooting. Did a look around, seems that he was already walking a tightrope before that last killings.


March 5th

WASHINGTON — Sen. Ted Cruz is in a pinch on gun control.

Cruz has been aligned throughout his career with the most ardently anti-regulation gun owners in the country, and they oppose a bill sponsored by Cruz's fellow Texas Republican, Sen. John Cornyn. Cornyn's legislation, co-sponsored by Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., would force greater participation in the National Instant Criminal Background Checks System (NICS) to ensure that all information is up-to-date.

If Cruz, who is up for re-election this year, sides with the hard-liners this time, he'll be at odds with both his Democratic challenger, Rep. Beto O'Rourke, and the National Rifle Association, which has endorsed the Cornyn bill. O'Rourke has raised nearly $8.7 million for the race, giving some Democrats hope they can flip a state that hasn't elected one of them to the Senate since 1988

.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/cruz-caught-election-year-bind-gun-control-n852016

[Dave]

The is a lady who is a co-leader of the Brady Campaign on the BBC who has said that the larger part of the guns used in school shootings belonged to the shooters parents or some acquaintance.

I do not think it would be unfair for such people to be charged as acting with something like criminal reckless carelessness in not adequately securing their weapons in the home. Maybe a huge fine and a life ban on owning guns for starters.

Lax gun security in tbe home, almost an attitude were the gun becomes just another "tool" you take out every day, like a clasp knife or mobile phone, so common place must be a danger. This applies to pistols mainly I suppose, unless everyday carrying of assault rifles is common in some states?