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Thoughts?

Started by Arturo, April 02, 2016, 04:38:13 PM

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Arturo

Quote from: Nam on April 03, 2016, 04:30:15 AM
When a Christian talks about things like Evolution and/or the Theory of Evolution (which they see as the same thing) they do it in the perception of their viewpoint of a god.

That's where I usually run into trouble. They always take the flawed viewpoint and then they wonder why it doesn't make sense. I know little on the subject but I know it's NATURAL selection, not random. I know it's only luck that we evolved to be able to comprehend these ideas. And I know evolution is more than possible when you look at it right. That's why I came here because I realized how far I've swayed from the theist ideas. And now I know you are all nice and inteligent people.

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 03, 2016, 01:48:17 PM
Speciation has been observed. You could arm yourself with numerous examples next time you run into another jerk like that. 

Can you point me to some? I'm not lazy, you just had a good idea so I thought you might have some examples somewhere.

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 03, 2016, 01:48:17 PM

Quote And finally he was saying that the Catholic Church brings in scientists to prove that a phenomenon contradicts "natural law" (laws like gravity) in order to prove what happened is a miracle or something like that.

:eyebrow:

I thought the Catholic Church generally accepts that evolution happens? They learnt their lesson when they disagreed with Galileo and such.


I'm not sure. I don't remember him saying anything about the catholic church official stance. I do remember him saying that someone "chooses to accept the faith given to them at birth through their own reasoning and not through force". So I guess the church can say the flying spaghetti monster is the real God and the followers can believe any random assortment of things and still be Catholics. Makes it hard to communicate when two people hold separate definitions of the same word. I had this problem with him when he used " preternatural " as a label for supernatural phenomenon that doesn't include God. So I looked up this word and this is what I got http://www.bing.com/search?q=preternatural&qs=HS&pq=p&sc=8-1&sp=1&cvid=1B9AD1AE24664BF8B65FBCE2E0DD120C&FORM=QBLH

He didn't use the word supernatural in defining it so I assumed it was all the same. Not to him though.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Apathy on April 09, 2016, 02:54:22 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 03, 2016, 01:48:17 PM
Speciation has been observed. You could arm yourself with numerous examples next time you run into another jerk like that. 

Can you point me to some? I'm not lazy, you just had a good idea so I thought you might have some examples somewhere.

Talkorigins.org has listed many examples, with references.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html#part5

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html


QuoteI'm not sure. I don't remember him saying anything about the catholic church official stance. I do remember him saying that someone "chooses to accept the faith given to them at birth through their own reasoning and not through force". So I guess the church can say the flying spaghetti monster is the real God and the followers can believe any random assortment of things and still be Catholics. Makes it hard to communicate when two people hold separate definitions of the same word. I had this problem with him when he used " preternatural " as a label for supernatural phenomenon that doesn't include God. So I looked up this word and this is what I got http://www.bing.com/search?q=preternatural&qs=HS&pq=p&sc=8-1&sp=1&cvid=1B9AD1AE24664BF8B65FBCE2E0DD120C&FORM=QBLH

He didn't use the word supernatural in defining it so I assumed it was all the same. Not to him though.

Argh, debating definitions goes nowhere. It distracts from the topic and is a major waste of time. I had never heard of "preternatural" before...  :???: Seems to me like a variant on the "god of the gaps" theme, without the god element.

"We don't know what it is or why it seems to contradict previous findings or the laws of nature, it must be a preternatural event!"

::)
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Arturo

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 09, 2016, 02:06:11 PM

Talkorigins.org has listed many examples, with references.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html#part5

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html



Thank you. This is what I found here.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/090301_cichlidspeciation

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 09, 2016, 02:06:11 PM

Argh, debating definitions goes nowhere. It distracts from the topic and is a major waste of time. I had never heard of "preternatural" before...  :???: Seems to me like a variant on the "god of the gaps" theme, without the god element.

"We don't know what it is or why it seems to contradict previous findings or the laws of nature, it must be a preternatural event!"

::)

Pretty much.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱