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Reflections on leaving Christianity and how religion tarnished me for life

Started by TheWalkingContradiction, August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM

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TheWalkingContradiction

A note of warning for Christians who are looking at this post: I am writing because I need to express what happened to me/what Christians have done to me.  If I water down my words and feelings so that no one will be offended, I will not gain anything by writing, and I will not be true to myself and my pain.  

I am not writing for Christians, and I am not writing to be "fair" or "unfair" to any group.  As the only person who experienced these events, I am stating what happened.  If you do not want to read such a post, please do not feel that you must.  I am looking to continue my healing process--nothing more.

-----------         -----------

"We need to convert Catholics, Jews and Muslims so they can go to Heaven."

          --Said to my class in the late 1970s by my Sunday School teacher

"Gays go to Heaven, but Catholics, Jews and Muslims don't."

          --Said to me in 2004 by a lesbian minister

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."

         ("The more things change, the more they remain the same.")

-----------         -----------

It is August 3, 2012 – my 47th birthday.  I have locked the door and put on the answering machine so I don't have to deal with relatives who want to remind me that I am a year closer to death and still outside God's grace, as they put it.  This may sound pathetic, but my birthday gift to myself is a day away from Christian proselytizing and other assorted nonsense.  Only the job I love got me out of the house earlier in the day.  The rest of the day is for my cat and me.

When I was a child, my birthday was yet another day for me to be ridiculed by Christians in my extended family.  Of course, they would always say "Happy birthday" and sing when the cake came out.  Ironically, I was still Christian then; I just wasn't good enough for anyone.  Later, when I joined a religious cult in an attempt to "cure" my homosexuality and also do what I thought God wanted me to do, birthdays were considered as "pagan" as Christmas and Easter.  "True Christians" did not celebrate them.  

Birthdays still give me the heebie jeebies, although my friends know I will always celebrate theirs in any way they wish as long as they give me my wish and leave me alone on my birthday.

It is not just a birthday issue.  Anything associated with Christianity continues to give me the heebie jeebies.  My earliest Christian memories are of intimidation, fear, and hellfire. I have always had an inquisitive mind, and on assessment tests I have always scored above the 95th percentile in "ideaphoria."  I have also always been a bookworm and did not care that others my age frowned on it.  But in my church, being creative and having a love for truth and learning caused a young Christian many problems.  I was mentally and physically abused whenever I said or did what came to me naturally even though I merely wanted to understand Jesus better. This is why I insist that my university students think for themselves and feel free to disagree with me as often as they wish.  This is why I also urge them to read banned books.

Back to church school in the 1970s.   When we learned about The Book of Job as an example of God's love, I said that the character of God as presented in this book was not positive. Why didn't God have faith in himself and his own creations? Why did he have to "prove" to the devil that he was superior, the way an insecure person does? If he was the master of all, he did not need to prove anything to the devil. I also said that God's giving Job new children did not make up for his having needlessly killed the original ones. People are attached to those they love, and loved ones can never be replaced, I explained. Of course, my punishment was severe.

I was twelve.

I so badly wanted to love and be loved by God.  I also wanted my church to be a refuge, a place where love would give me a respite from the classmates and extended family that hated and bullied me.  Unfortunately, God was king of the bullies.  A few years later I prayed and prayed with a sixteen-year-old's fervor, trying to appease this malevolent deity.  I asked that he show me what he wanted me to do.  I was then recruited into a religious cult (the late Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) by a friend in high school.  I thought that was where God wanted me to be, and it took years for me to get out.

Moving ahead to university in the 1980s—and a secular university, I might add... In the required philosophy course, where the professor could teach anything he or she wanted, mine chose to teach proofs of the existence of God and then, wouldn't you know it, The Book of Job. I reiterated my childhood objections, although in far more sophisticated language. And, in an earlier class, I had said that the Early Modern European proofs of God's existence were disingenuous since the philosophers in question had already committed themselves to belief in God and, for religious reasons, could only come to such a proof regardless of what any evidence said. To say the least, I was not popular in this class.

And mind you, I was still somewhat Christian then.  Agnosticism was still a few years away, and atheism was still many years away.  

Where was the love in the name of which Christians profess their devotion?  Why was I the one who could never be loved?

Of course, Christians reading this will present the tired argument of true Christians vs. false Christians, which is a logical fallacy. Everything was done to me by false Christians, they will claim, and I therefore have no beef with Christianity. I cannot even begin to explain how insulting that argument is.  I was abused by those who read a book full of dashing the heads of infants against rocks and smiting whole cities.  A set of divisive beliefs unifies all Christian thought, and all Christians claim to be true Christians--unlike all the other Christians who also claim to be true Christians.  

It took me until 2004 to finally toss out all religious abuse from my life and start fighting back; as an agnostic I was forever trying to reconcile myself with Christianity (which, I admit, is not what agnosticism is about).

Now it is 2012, and I am still in great mental pain.  I have accomplished much in my life: I am a university professor well liked by his students; I speak three languages and am learning a fourth; I am a published writer; I am paid to do voice over work.  More important than any of this, I do volunteer work with mentally ill teens and twentysomethings, and I help take care of my parents (both of whom are seniors).  And yet, in the eyes of most of my extended family (fortunately not my parents and sister) and most Christians, I am worthless and am going to hell.  This is why I struggle with self-esteem and feelings of worthlessness on a regular basis, this despite my accomplishments.  Christians tell me that self-worth issues come from my rejection of Jesus; I say they come from 47 years of having Jesus' hate, as emulated by his followers, hurled at me.  As a youngster, I was told again and again what a "wretched bag of putrid meat" I was (and all people were), and how undeserving I was (and all people were) of God's love or life.  How, I ask, can anyone who has that drilled into him year after year have a sense of self-worth?

Perhaps now it is clear why I reacted so negatively to that (Christian) "Dirt" person on this board when he gave his views on gay issues and sin in my introductory thread/in the section of the board reserved for light discussion--and on my second day here.  And on an --atheist-- board.  Is there not an ample supply of Christian boards?  

I suppose that is as good a transition as any for my gay journey...  I came out of the closet as a gay man just before I turned 23 in the summer of 1988, but it took until 1990 for me to so much as kiss another man.  Anything else took much longer.  I have since engaged in sexual acts--making out and other things (without penetration) that culminated in mutual orgasms--but I have never "gone all the way."  I have never had a relationship either.  After being betrayed by so many Christians who claimed to love me and by the supposed creator of all things, I find it nearly impossible to trust others.  Even at my age people express sexual interest in me, but I throw myself into my work and hobbies.  It has been years since I have done anything sexual.  I do very much enjoy teaching, reading, learning, science fiction, travel, my parents, my sister, my cat, my friends... But I am also aware that something is missing.  (No, Christians, not Jesus.  Heard it before, bored with the argument.)

Far from being the immoral gay non-Christian that Jesus' followers paint me as, on two occasions, when I was in my late 20s, I had the opportunity to bed two different teenage boys on two different occasions--but did not.  Instead, I had a long talk with each one after being approached, saying that sex and being gay were wonderful, but that they did not have to use sex to to feel loved or make a friend.  I don't want any gay kid to think he has to spread his legs to be liked.  (I don't want any woman or straight guy to think that either.)  I won't lie; part of me regrets saying no.  On both occasions I had just met them, and I could have done just about anything to them—especially to the 14-year-old.  But I was already a teacher, and I thought about my own students.  It might just be sex to me, but to a boy that age it could mean much more and lead to dangerous behavior.  I can only hope that my saying no out of respect for them (as I had put it) had some positive effect on them.  Needless to say, I never saw either one again.

Mind you, I am not painting myself as a saint.  I do as many nasty things as the next person because I am human.  I don't believe in sin, but I don't believe in saints either.

So here I am, posting this biographical piece I have been promising.  Recently, I have been quite stressed in my volunteer work since I have to answer to an abusive Christian woman with no respect for me.  If it were any other aspect of my life, I would just quit.  However, if I do, the gay kids in the program (most of whom are also Christian) will have no one standing up for them.  "Christians can say what they want about gays, but gays can't say anything about Christians."  That is a quote—and did I mention that this woman is a licensed psychologist?

Did I mention that in the 1980s, the first therapist I went to for help with my own OCD told me that if I was gay I would get AIDS and die?  What a thing to say to someone with OCD (and hence unrealistic fears).  

Do these people not read their own DSM?

Eventually I did get the help I needed.  I was too scared to go to an atheist since I still believed in hell at the time, so I went to the Jewish Board of Family and Children Services and saw a Jewish therapist who was gay-positive, did not care that I was not Jewish, and knew how to treat OCD.  There is a reason I love the Yiddish language and everything (secular) Jewish to this day...

You have probably figure out that one of the reasons this Christian supervisior stresses me out so much is my OCD.   I learned to manage it in behavior therapy years ago, and I still take medication (only 25% of what I originally needed).  I won't say that Christianity caused my OCD since OCD and other disorders run in my family, but I will say that Christianity exacerbated it.  There is no reason for it to have been so bad, and every OCD issue I have ever faced comes from Christianity, especially The Book of Revelation.  I no longer believe in any of that, but I am sure those of you with OCD or who have children with OCD (per the OCD thread on this board) know that does not matter.  OCD is what it is, and logic does not alter it.  Having gone through years of OCD's ravages before I got help a long time ago, I won't abandon young people with disorders. So now I am stuck in a situation that is unhealthy for me.  

An atheist helping young Christians out of... love.  But I am still going to hell, of course.





Ecurb Noselrub

Thanks for sharing and opening up.  I certainly hope that it helps with your healing process.

Firebird

Thank you very much for sharing that with us TWC. It was painful to read at times, but I am truly impressed with how you carry yourself and how you overcame such horrible abuse to become the person you are today. The kids you are helping are lucky to have you. That woman may be ignorant and not understand how much good you do, but many of us do. I know many people close to me who are gay, and I've seen how important a supportive enivronment is for them, especially at that age.
And I do agree with you about Christianity, and pretty much all organized religion. It's done much, much more harm than good in the world, and your story is one example why. No need to be afraid to express that here.
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
It is August 3, 2012 – my 47th birthday.

First off, happy belated birthday! ;D 

QuoteNow it is 2012, and I am still in great mental pain.  I have accomplished much in my life: I am a university professor well liked by his students; I speak three languages and am learning a fourth; I am a published writer; I am paid to do voice over work.  More important than any of this, I do volunteer work with mentally ill teens and twentysomethings, and I help take care of my parents (both of whom are seniors).  And yet, in the eyes of most of my extended family (fortunately not my parents and sister) and most Christians, I am worthless and am going to hell.  This is why I struggle with self-esteem and feelings of worthlessness on a regular basis, this despite my accomplishments.  Christians tell me that self-worth issues come from my rejection of Jesus; I say they come from 47 years of having Jesus' hate, as emulated by his followers, hurled at me.  As a youngster, I was told again and again what a "wretched bag of putrid meat" I was (and all people were), and how undeserving I was (and all people were) of God's love or life.  How, I ask, can anyone who has that drilled into him year after year have a sense of self-worth?

I don't mean to put your sense of self worth that has been cultivated by some christians over the years into such dry terms, but you have to see the process behind that for what it is. Christianity dehumanises people so that the only way that they can be what they want to be is through the religion. It's a very common and effective cult tactic that keeps people in cults. Telling people that they're born 'broken' and that a certain cult based on no evidence has the answer or remedy  is a weird thing, but it is powerful for some. I imagine especially in the case of impressionable children or people who might easily think compulsively over it. In most cases the people caught up in that sort of thinking don't even realise what they're doing, or notice how it just doesn't fit with their idea of their loving god. I don't know if it will help with your OCD by shedding new light on it all, but you could look up the types of psychological manipulation that cults use, and that are the foundations of many of the ways christianity manipulates people even these days.

Next time your extended family calls to annoy you, give them a few words. Putting that off won't solve the problem, especially since it is a bit more difficult to simply close the door for good on family.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


En_Route

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
A note of warning for Christians who are looking at this post: I am writing because I need to express what happened to me/what Christians have done to me.  If I water down my words and feelings so that no one will be offended, I will not gain anything by writing, and I will not be true to myself and my pain.  

I am not writing for Christians, and I am not writing to be "fair" or "unfair" to any group.  As the only person who experienced these events, I am stating what happened.  If you do not want to read such a post, please do not feel that you must.  I am looking to continue my healing process--nothing more.

-----------         -----------

"We need to convert Catholics, Jews and Muslims so they can go to Heaven."

          --Said to my class in the late 1970s by my Sunday School teacher

"Gays go to Heaven, but Catholics, Jews and Muslims don't."

          --Said to me in 2004 by a lesbian minister

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."

         ("The more things change, the more they remain the same.")

-----------         -----------

It is August 3, 2012 – my 47th birthday.  I have locked the door and put on the answering machine so I don't have to deal with relatives who want to remind me that I am a year closer to death and still outside God's grace, as they put it.  This may sound pathetic, but my birthday gift to myself is a day away from Christian proselytizing and other assorted nonsense.  Only the job I love got me out of the house earlier in the day.  The rest of the day is for my cat and me.

When I was a child, my birthday was yet another day for me to be ridiculed by Christians in my extended family.  Of course, they would always say "Happy birthday" and sing when the cake came out.  Ironically, I was still Christian then; I just wasn't good enough for anyone.  Later, when I joined a religious cult in an attempt to "cure" my homosexuality and also do what I thought God wanted me to do, birthdays were considered as "pagan" as Christmas and Easter.  "True Christians" did not celebrate them.  

Birthdays still give me the heebie jeebies, although my friends know I will always celebrate theirs in any way they wish as long as they give me my wish and leave me alone on my birthday.

It is not just a birthday issue.  Anything associated with Christianity continues to give me the heebie jeebies.  My earliest Christian memories are of intimidation, fear, and hellfire. I have always had an inquisitive mind, and on assessment tests I have always scored above the 95th percentile in "ideaphoria."  I have also always been a bookworm and did not care that others my age frowned on it.  But in my church, being creative and having a love for truth and learning caused a young Christian many problems.  I was mentally and physically abused whenever I said or did what came to me naturally even though I merely wanted to understand Jesus better. This is why I insist that my university students think for themselves and feel free to disagree with me as often as they wish.  This is why I also urge them to read banned books.

Back to church school in the 1970s.   When we learned about The Book of Job as an example of God's love, I said that the character of God as presented in this book was not positive. Why didn't God have faith in himself and his own creations? Why did he have to "prove" to the devil that he was superior, the way an insecure person does? If he was the master of all, he did not need to prove anything to the devil. I also said that God's giving Job new children did not make up for his having needlessly killed the original ones. People are attached to those they love, and loved ones can never be replaced, I explained. Of course, my punishment was severe.

I was twelve.

I so badly wanted to love and be loved by God.  I also wanted my church to be a refuge, a place where love would give me a respite from the classmates and extended family that hated and bullied me.  Unfortunately, God was king of the bullies.  A few years later I prayed and prayed with a sixteen-year-old's fervor, trying to appease this malevolent deity.  I asked that he show me what he wanted me to do.  I was then recruited into a religious cult (the late Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) by a friend in high school.  I thought that was where God wanted me to be, and it took years for me to get out.

Moving ahead to university in the 1980s—and a secular university, I might add... In the required philosophy course, where the professor could teach anything he or she wanted, mine chose to teach proofs of the existence of God and then, wouldn't you know it, The Book of Job. I reiterated my childhood objections, although in far more sophisticated language. And, in an earlier class, I had said that the Early Modern European proofs of God's existence were disingenuous since the philosophers in question had already committed themselves to belief in God and, for religious reasons, could only come to such a proof regardless of what any evidence said. To say the least, I was not popular in this class.

And mind you, I was still somewhat Christian then.  Agnosticism was still a few years away, and atheism was still many years away.  

Where was the love in the name of which Christians profess their devotion?  Why was I the one who could never be loved?

Of course, Christians reading this will present the tired argument of true Christians vs. false Christians, which is a logical fallacy. Everything was done to me by false Christians, they will claim, and I therefore have no beef with Christianity. I cannot even begin to explain how insulting that argument is.  I was abused by those who read a book full of dashing the heads of infants against rocks and smiting whole cities.  A set of divisive beliefs unifies all Christian thought, and all Christians claim to be true Christians--unlike all the other Christians who also claim to be true Christians.  

It took me until 2004 to finally toss out all religious abuse from my life and start fighting back; as an agnostic I was forever trying to reconcile myself with Christianity (which, I admit, is not what agnosticism is about).

Now it is 2012, and I am still in great mental pain.  I have accomplished much in my life: I am a university professor well liked by his students; I speak three languages and am learning a fourth; I am a published writer; I am paid to do voice over work.  More important than any of this, I do volunteer work with mentally ill teens and twentysomethings, and I help take care of my parents (both of whom are seniors).  And yet, in the eyes of most of my extended family (fortunately not my parents and sister) and most Christians, I am worthless and am going to hell.  This is why I struggle with self-esteem and feelings of worthlessness on a regular basis, this despite my accomplishments.  Christians tell me that self-worth issues come from my rejection of Jesus; I say they come from 47 years of having Jesus' hate, as emulated by his followers, hurled at me.  As a youngster, I was told again and again what a "wretched bag of putrid meat" I was (and all people were), and how undeserving I was (and all people were) of God's love or life.  How, I ask, can anyone who has that drilled into him year after year have a sense of self-worth?

Perhaps now it is clear why I reacted so negatively to that (Christian) "Dirt" person on this board when he gave his views on gay issues and sin in my introductory thread/in the section of the board reserved for light discussion--and on my second day here.  And on an --atheist-- board.  Is there not an ample supply of Christian boards?  

I suppose that is as good a transition as any for my gay journey...  I came out of the closet as a gay man just before I turned 23 in the summer of 1988, but it took until 1990 for me to so much as kiss another man.  Anything else took much longer.  I have since engaged in sexual acts--making out and other things (without penetration) that culminated in mutual orgasms--but I have never "gone all the way."  I have never had a relationship either.  After being betrayed by so many Christians who claimed to love me and by the supposed creator of all things, I find it nearly impossible to trust others.  Even at my age people express sexual interest in me, but I throw myself into my work and hobbies.  It has been years since I have done anything sexual.  I do very much enjoy teaching, reading, learning, science fiction, travel, my parents, my sister, my cat, my friends... But I am also aware that something is missing.  (No, Christians, not Jesus.  Heard it before, bored with the argument.)

Far from being the immoral gay non-Christian that Jesus' followers paint me as, on two occasions, when I was in my late 20s, I had the opportunity to bed two different teenage boys on two different occasions--but did not.  Instead, I had a long talk with each one after being approached, saying that sex and being gay were wonderful, but that they did not have to use sex to to feel loved or make a friend.  I don't want any gay kid to think he has to spread his legs to be liked.  (I don't want any woman or straight guy to think that either.)  I won't lie; part of me regrets saying no.  On both occasions I had just met them, and I could have done just about anything to them—especially to the 14-year-old.  But I was already a teacher, and I thought about my own students.  It might just be sex to me, but to a boy that age it could mean much more and lead to dangerous behavior.  I can only hope that my saying no out of respect for them (as I had put it) had some positive effect on them.  Needless to say, I never saw either one again.

Mind you, I am not painting myself as a saint.  I do as many nasty things as the next person because I am human.  I don't believe in sin, but I don't believe in saints either.

So here I am, posting this biographical piece I have been promising.  Recently, I have been quite stressed in my volunteer work since I have to answer to an abusive Christian woman with no respect for me.  If it were any other aspect of my life, I would just quit.  However, if I do, the gay kids in the program (most of whom are also Christian) will have no one standing up for them.  "Christians can say what they want about gays, but gays can't say anything about Christians."  That is a quote—and did I mention that this woman is a licensed psychologist?

Did I mention that in the 1980s, the first therapist I went to for help with my own OCD told me that if I was gay I would get AIDS and die?  What a thing to say to someone with OCD (and hence unrealistic fears).  

Do these people not read their own DSM?

Eventually I did get the help I needed.  I was too scared to go to an atheist since I still believed in hell at the time, so I went to the Jewish Board of Family and Children Services and saw a Jewish therapist who was gay-positive, did not care that I was not Jewish, and knew how to treat OCD.  There is a reason I love the Yiddish language and everything (secular) Jewish to this day...

You have probably figure out that one of the reasons this Christian supervisior stresses me out so much is my OCD.   I learned to manage it in behavior therapy years ago, and I still take medication (only 25% of what I originally needed).  I won't say that Christianity caused my OCD since OCD and other disorders run in my family, but I will say that Christianity exacerbated it.  There is no reason for it to have been so bad, and every OCD issue I have ever faced comes from Christianity, especially The Book of Revelation.  I no longer believe in any of that, but I am sure those of you with OCD or who have children with OCD (per the OCD thread on this board) know that does not matter.  OCD is what it is, and logic does not alter it.  Having gone through years of OCD's ravages before I got help a long time ago, I won't abandon young people with disorders. So now I am stuck in a situation that is unhealthy for me.  

An atheist helping young Christians out of... love.  But I am still going to hell, of course.






I found your eloquent and unsparing  account both moving but also uplifting. You have had much to contend with and still do, given the legacy of your upbringing and your famly's  continuing hostility and belittlement,  and yet you lead a life guided by compassion and concern for others. I hope you can even yet conquer your feelings of worthlessness and find a measure of self- acceptance and ease of mind.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

TheWalkingContradiction

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2012, 04:47:51 AM
Thanks for sharing and opening up.  I certainly hope that it helps with your healing process.

Thank you.  Me too.

TheWalkingContradiction

Quote from: Firebird on August 04, 2012, 06:33:50 AM
Thank you very much for sharing that with us TWC. It was painful to read at times, but I am truly impressed with how you carry yourself and how you overcame such horrible abuse to become the person you are today. The kids you are helping are lucky to have you. That woman may be ignorant and not understand how much good you do, but many of us do. I know many people close to me who are gay, and I've seen how important a supportive enivronment is for them, especially at that age.
And I do agree with you about Christianity, and pretty much all organized religion. It's done much, much more harm than good in the world, and your story is one example why. No need to be afraid to express that here.


Thank you for the kind words.  I have quite a temper, actually, and I have learned over the years to keep it in check.  (Well, most of the time...)  

I think perhaps I did not stress enough that while my parents and sister are Christians, they did not abuse me the way others in the family have; they also accept me as gay and as an atheist.  That is probably why I am not much worse than I could have been.  They too have suffered because of religion, although they remain part of it.  I overlook a lot that they say and do for that reason.  

I also had my super-hero comic books and science fiction when I was young, and while living in fantasy land may not be healthy it did save me from suicidal thoughts and give me a sense of hope and a desire to help others.  It is no coincidence that I remain such an adament Star Trek, comic and science fiction fan today--and that I find ways to bring some of that into my academic lessons.

Support is so important, but there are only two gay people I can go to for it: my closest friend of many years and another good friend.  Unfortunately, my closest friend has been teaching in the Middle East for two years (although we e-mail and Skype regularly), and the other friend is in California for the summer but will be back in September.  The other gays I know are --GASP!-- Christians.  That's another reason I am on this board.  

TheWalkingContradiction

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 04, 2012, 07:10:46 AM


I don't mean to put your sense of self worth that has been cultivated by some christians over the years into such dry terms, but you have to see the process behind that for what it is. Christianity dehumanises people so that the only way that they can be what they want to be is through the religion. It's a very common and effective cult tactic that keeps people in cults. Telling people that they're born 'broken' and that a certain cult based on no evidence has the answer or remedy  is a weird thing, but it is powerful for some. I imagine especially in the case of impressionable children or people who might easily think compulsively over it. In most cases the people caught up in that sort of thinking don't even realise what they're doing, or notice how it just doesn't fit with their idea of their loving god. I don't know if it will help with your OCD by shedding new light on it all, but you could look up the types of psychological manipulation that cults use, and that are the foundations of many of the ways christianity manipulates people even these days.

Next time your extended family calls to annoy you, give them a few words. Putting that off won't solve the problem, especially since it is a bit more difficult to simply close the door for good on family.


I like what you wrote very much.  Out of respect for my parents and their need for stable extended family interaction, I cannot tell certain people what I would like to tell them.  All I can do is find ways to continue to be too busy to have anything to do with relatives I despise.  And many of these relatives have died off.  Only some are left, vocal as they are.

But yes, because OCD makes me think in black and white terms AND because I was in a cult in which thinking was in black and white terms, I must always remind myself that life is gray.  Sometimes I am more successful and sometimes less successful.

TheWalkingContradiction

Quote from: En_Route on August 04, 2012, 08:30:51 AM


I found your eloquent and unsparing  account both moving but also uplifting. You have had much to contend with and still do, given the legacy of your upbringing and your famly's  continuing hostility and belittlement,  and yet you lead a life guided by compassion and concern for others. I hope you can even yet conquer your feelings of worthlessness and find a measure of self- acceptance and ease of mind.

...and I found your post very uplifting.  But I think it would be better to say I try my best to "lead a life guided by compassion and concern for others."  As I have expressed, I don't want to paint myself as a saint.  I have a very selfish and petty side too.

I have gotten much better with self-esteem over the years, but I do still have a long way to go. 

OldGit

Happy belated birthday, TWC.  A heartbreaking story, but now you're clear of religion things can only get better.

QuoteOf course, Christians reading this will present the tired argument of true Christians vs. false Christians, which is a logical fallacy. Everything was done to me by false Christians, they will claim, and I therefore have no beef with Christianity.

That's so annoying.  Like the religious conflicts all over the world and all through history - not true religion, they say.  But it's no good arguing with them.

Tank

A very interesting and insightful read TWC, thank you for sharing.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Stevil

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
...when I was in my late 20s,...I could have done just about anything to them—especially to the 14-year-old
Seriously, you do need to avoid the underage ones, it won't be a good look.
It seems maybe you are focusing too much on the sex part. Just enjoy being in someone's company. If you are feeling uncomfortable getting intimate then don't. If it feels natural and the stars are aligned, well...
But until then, there is no need to put pressure on yourself.

Quote
So here I am, posting this biographical piece I have been promising.  Recently, I have been quite stressed in my volunteer work since I have to answer to an abusive Christian woman with no respect for me.
Sounds tough, you want to do something of value and yet someone is making it extremely difficult for you, based on their own shortcomings. Difficult situation indeed.

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
Did I mention that in the 1980s, the first therapist I went to for help with my own OCD told me that if I was gay I would get AIDS and die?  
In the 80's not much was known about AIDS, there was global panic. But still, this therapist sounds like an ignorant douche

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
An atheist helping young Christians out of... love.  
Maybe this is the cure???. Christians come in all shapes and sizes, these young Christians you are keen to help out. Focus on what it is that you like about them. But please remember, your worth is not how others define you, it is how you define yourself.
Take a good look at yourself in the mirror each morning, describe who you see, try not to taint your thoughts on what others say. Your inner voice needs to be your own.
A manager of mine came up with a gem, he called it the elevator pitch. Imagine you hopped into the elevator and pressed the 10th floor, next minute the CEO walks into the elevator, you have ten floors to sell yourself. You need to be succinct and to the point.
I use this to build up my own confidence from time to time, I try and sell myself to myself. I need to as I often have low self-esteem. Pick out your selling points, I'm sure you will be impressed when you see them in a small paragraph. Nobody can take that away from you. Nobody!

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
But I am still going to hell, of course.
I think you would hate Heaven, especially if it's full of Christians. Hell is the place for you, I'm going there, its gonna be a blast.

But seriously, for those Christians taking "delight" in declaring your impending journey to Hell. There is something wrong with them. They aren't to be taken seriously. They are delusional, sadistic and arrogant. Surely most Christians aren't like this, but sadly some are. The issue is clearly them, not you. You ought to pity them for their foolishness, they are certainly locked into the prison of their own skewed thoughts. For this their world is very limited, they cannot see the beauty of diversity and acceptance that many others can enjoy.
Be confident in who you are. It is only you who defines your worth, not a group of people ganging up on you. They are sad and pathetic.

Know yourself, be true to yourself, be proud, nothing else matters!

Synapse

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on August 04, 2012, 09:28:49 AM
As I have expressed, I don't want to paint myself as a saint.  I have a very selfish and petty side too.

I have gotten much better with self-esteem over the years, but I do still have a long way to go. 

From my (very limited) experience, it is those who question their goodness of character that winds up being the more respectable person. It's a willingness to look at your flaws and working hard at overcoming it that makes one great. Those who think they are perfect never are, because they never give themselves the chance to develop as a human being. And from your post it is quite obvious that you have a level of restraint and willpower that most don't.

DeterminedJuliet

"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

TheWalkingContradiction

Quote from: OldGit on August 04, 2012, 10:10:22 AM
Happy belated birthday, TWC.  A heartbreaking story, but now you're clear of religion things can only get better.

QuoteOf course, Christians reading this will present the tired argument of true Christians vs. false Christians, which is a logical fallacy. Everything was done to me by false Christians, they will claim, and I therefore have no beef with Christianity.

That's so annoying.  Like the religious conflicts all over the world and all through history - not true religion, they say.  But it's no good arguing with them.


Thank you, OldGit!

Oh, could I say a mouthful about "true religion"...  But that's a topic for a future mammoth post.  ;)