Lying to Children

[Crow]

Is it ok to lie to children? Are some forms ok and others not?

I personally think it is the worst thing a person can do to a child (besides the obvious). When I hear a parent say babies come from any place other than a vagina, that Santa exists, the tooth fair exists or any of the other various lies that people tell children it pisses me off big time. Now I don't think it is always necessary to put a child correct, for example if a child believes in Santa there is no harm in letting that be unless they start to become a bit obsessed, however I do think it's very wrong to place that belief there or manipulate it. I can understand why some parents may lie at times simply because they need a rest or makes their life that little bit easier, but that is still wrong. The basic premise of being a parent is to help create an environment that is beneficial for a child to grow into a self sufficient adult and by not providing them with the most accurate information available you are not creating this. Now some people seem to get mixed up that telling the truth creates a boring childhood without imagination which certainly isn't the case as that's bullshit, what imagination is involved in regurgitating tall tales generation after generation and making them believe something is true which isn't, creating that sense of "magic" is easy and doesn't require a belief in anything. Though the temptation to have fun with little white lies is certainly tempting.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I know this is a contentious issue, but I feel the same way. I have no desire to have our wee one believe in Santa/Tooth fairy/Easter Bunny. I've never said anything to any other parents because, hey, it's their kid and they're allowed to do what they want (and we all probably get enough unsolicited advice as it is), but yeah. I'm not really a fan.

I'm still not sure how we're going to handle our guy "ruining" these beliefs for other kids. Should we tell him to let other little kids believe in Santa? Should we let him say "Santa's not real"? I'm imagining less than impressed feedback from other parents if our little guy goes running around telling all his friends that his parents are liars, but I'm not sure what else to do.  ???

[Asmodean]

If they are liars, how's the kid at fault for exposing them as such? If they are worried that it may undermine their authority as parents, well... Should have thought of that before they started presenting fairy tales as the truth.

[DeterminedJuliet]

If they are liars, how's the kid at fault for exposing them as such? If they are worried that it may undermine their authority as parents, well... Should have thought of that before they started presenting fairy tales as the truth.

Yeah, that's why I'm left with "not really sure what else I can do." I just don't relish conflict.

[Siz]

Ok then. Out with Winnie the Pooh, Beatrix Potter, Julia Donaldson and Roald Dahl. Out with Toy Story, Star Wars, Batman, Tom and Jerry and Thomas the Tank engine.

Good. Now that we're not indulging in fantasies we can feel much better about ourselves. Good work, team.



Really?

[Dobermonster]

Ok then. Out with Winnie the Pooh, Beatrix Potter, Julia Donaldson and Roald Dahl. Out with Toy Story, Star Wars, Batman, Tom and Jerry and Thomas the Tank engine.

Good. Now that we're not indulging in fantasies we can feel much better about ourselves. Good work, team.



Really?

I think kids can indulge in fantasy and fiction without believing it to be reality.

[Sweetdeath]

Ok then. Out with Winnie the Pooh, Beatrix Potter, Julia Donaldson and Roald Dahl. Out with Toy Story, Star Wars, Batman, Tom and Jerry and Thomas the Tank engine.

Good. Now that we're not indulging in fantasies we can feel much better about ourselves. Good work, team.



Really?

I think kids can indulge in fantasy and fiction without believing it to be reality.

Agreed.
Fictional stories and reality are two complerely different things.

Like OP said, only place babies come from are the vagina, unless you're a seahorse.

lying a horrible thing to children.

[Asmodean]

Really?

Yes, really.

Personally, I like a lot of Sci-Fi (Well, maybe not Star Wars, but still quite a lot) and some cartoons. However, I am fully aware that they do not depict any known existing reality, so on a subjective level, I don't see how your comment has anything to do with what is being discussed.

[The Magic Pudding]

I don't have a problem with the Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy conspiracies.  The kids enjoy it, it is motivated by the desire to give children a fun time and they do.  I'm not aware of too many people tracing their problems back to these pretend games we play.  I don't think children are embittered at finding they've been lied too, I think they understand the game.  There's something to be said for children learning to be sceptical and that no one is entirely to be trusted. 

Jake: You lied to me.
Elwood: Wasn't lies, it was just... bullshit.

[En_Route]

I know this is a contentious issue, but I feel the same way. I have no desire to have our wee one believe in Santa/Tooth fairy/Easter Bunny. I've never said anything to any other parents because, hey, it's their kid and they're allowed to do what they want (and we all probably get enough unsolicited advice as it is), but yeah. I'm not really a fan.

I'm still not sure how we're going to handle our guy "ruining" these beliefs for other kids. Should we tell him to let other little kids believe in Santa? Should we let him say "Santa's not real"? I'm imagining less than impressed feedback from other parents if our little guy goes running around telling all his friends that his parents are liars, but I'm not sure what else to do.  ???

I would strongly counsel you to play along. Kids love Santa and it is a magical experience for them. We are talking about youngsters here whose powers of reasoning and mental development have a long way to go. They are not mini adults to whom you are betraying some sacred trust to level up with them on every aspect of life. They are not going to believe in Santa forever. For virtually every kid looking back the time they believed in Santa is a treasured memory and they can laugh at the affectionate deception involved. The other point is that you risk your kid being seen as the odd one out amongst his peers and incurring odium or at least unpopularity. I think you risk giving your kid an unhappier childhood in the name of some misguided although well- meaning principle. For what it's worth, my own offspring were true believers in Santa who rewarded their faith liberally. Neither seem to harbour any grudge and both have independently opted for atheism.

[markmcdaniel]

I have to agree that it does little if any harm to let them believe in Santa etc.

[OldGit]

^ This.  Santa brings so much happiness and the kids grow up fast enough.

More generally, we can't live with each other, adults or kids, without  quite a lot of lies as a social lubricant.

Kid: "Watch me, Mummy!  Look, Look, I can throw the ball!"

Parent: "That was pathetic.  Now I've got things to do, shut up."

[Siz]

Ok then. Out with Winnie the Pooh, Beatrix Potter, Julia Donaldson and Roald Dahl. Out with Toy Story, Star Wars, Batman, Tom and Jerry and Thomas the Tank engine.

Good. Now that we're not indulging in fantasies we can feel much better about ourselves. Good work, team.



Really?

I think kids can indulge in fantasy and fiction without believing it to be reality.

Do you think that when young children watch Thomas the tank engine they believe they're seeing anything other than reality?
Young children have no concept of fantasy - everything is real to them.

By enabling fantasies children learn better to distinguish fact from fiction as they mature - and with it develop healthy and rewarding imaginations. Don't take that away from them.

And Santa and the tooth fairy is just an extension of that, just like playing cowboys and indians or dolly tea parties. Why do I indulge them thus? BECAUSE IT'S FUN!

[Siz]

Really?

Yes, really.

Personally, I like a lot of Sci-Fi (Well, maybe not Star Wars, but still quite a lot) and some cartoons. However, I am fully aware that they do not depict any known existing reality, so on a subjective level, I don't see how your comment has anything to do with what is being discussed.

Yes, of course you are fully aware, but the point is that young children do NOT have the same relationship with reality that you do. They do not descern. Every experience is real.

[Crow]

Do you think that when young children watch Thomas the tank engine they believe they're seeing anything other than reality?
Young children have no concept of fantasy - everything is real to them.

By enabling fantasies children learn better to distinguish fact from fiction as they mature - and with it develop healthy and rewarding imaginations. Don't take that away from them.

And Santa and the tooth fairy is just an extension of that, just like playing cowboys and indians or dolly tea parties. Why do I indulge them thus? BECAUSE IT'S FUN!

I would disagree, I think children do have a sense of reality that is similar to our own but they haven't learned how things work yet, I always new that Thomas the Tank Engine wasn't real and my parents never told me he wasn't, maybe at some point I did think he was real but do not remember doing so, I do remember being infatuated with the show. In the examples you have given there isn't any harm as playing along with something that they will figure out for themselves. Same with Santa they will figure it out themselves and is enough media around that supports Santa that you do not even need to place that thought there, I think its quite adverse to training children like dogs with a reward system (even though it does work) as they expect something for nothing, by allowing the children's imagination to run away with the myth is fine but to start using that to get a child to behave better is rather messed up in my opinion.

It doesn't take a belief in Santa or any other story to enhance the imagination of a child, that's not the imagination part what is the imagination is the parts around the defined stories that children make up and enjoy, Santa and all the others are just the cardboard box, that box doesn't even have to exist if the child's imagination is strong enough, those stories are rather stifling as they are controlling the pattern of imagination which will one day be destroyed by another child who knows the truth.