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Evidence for God

Started by Bob, January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AM

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Bob

Hello, all.

This post is for the purpose of addressing some common questions often raised by atheists such as, Who or what is God? Why doesn't God prove his existence to me? Where is the evidence for God's existence?

The Bible is a very good place to provide a good answer.  In fact, one Bible verse covers it very well.  In 21st century English, the passage reads...

"...what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them.  For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship,..."  (Romans 1:19, 20).

Thus perception plays a very important part in trying to offer an explanation concerning the Creator.

Many, perhaps most, atheists would accept as proof of the existence of God only evidence they can see, feel, touch and take apart and reassemble in a laboratory setting.  And, of course, that lab would have to be only where they would have unfettered access.

So, let us reason a bit. 

How would I liken the Creator?  Perhaps by looking at the problem in reverse.  Let's look at the problem from God's point of view. 

In Isaiah is a fitting description of the problem and with an element of reason comes understanding.

"There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers...."  Isaiah 40:22

Could you rightly expect a grasshopper to fully explain a human or human accomplishments like the Hubble space telescope?  Or would you be humble enough to learn grasshopper speech and befriend them?  Sounds foolish, correct?  That is the dilemma. 

Further on this line of thought is the difference between humans and chimpanzees is about one percent of DNA.  On that scale what would a creature be like who was one percent greater than humans in their DNA?  If their intellect would follow the same scale, could we ever hope to understand them?  Much less be on par with them?  And yet God is orders of magnitude greater than chimpanzees or grasshopper-like humans.

And here is one item we all see without any understanding.  Something so basic it has no record anywhere in the Bible as having been created.  And that even though many think it is listed among the creations attributed to God.  And what is that?  LIFE.

The Bible tells us this at Psalm 36:9 simply that the 'source of life is God'.  Much has been hypothesized about life.  Some have speculated about life having a chemical nature.  Some have claimed that by assembling certain molecules together they have created life.  But when pressed, they admit they can not and did not create life.  It cannot be disassembled and reassembled.  Some have speculated that life is a form of energy as yet not understood.

And there is God.  If we go back to Romans 1:20 we see it speaks about the creation as giving us insight into God.  So look at the creation.  Focus on Isaiah 40:25, 26.  "To whom can you liken me to make me his equal?" says the Holy One.

26 "Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.  Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number; He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power, Not one of them is missing."

Science today admit every star fulfills a purpose.  Did you know we ourselves are star stuff?  And even the super heavy elements seem to come from the collision of neutron stars. So not even a single star is missing.

Science also tells us eventually the universe itself will run down.  Over 3000 years ago the Psalmist spoke of an immense maintenance project needed to fix the universe itself.  Read for yourself Psalm 102:25-27.  Makes for very interesting reading. 

Oh.  And DNA;  Look at Psalm 139:16.  "Your eyes even saw me as an embryo;  All its parts were written in your book  Regarding the days when they were formed,  Before any of them existed.'  Written more than 3,000 years before we had amassed enough knowledge on our own to understand, how would you explain that passage?

So, for a lowly human to define in human terms a being vastly more complex with knowledge and the ability to make and use forces beyond our comprehension, is at best an exercise in futility. 

But a few things I do know.   The Bible provides compelling evidence that God exists. It encourages us to build faith in God, not by blindly believing religious assertions, but by using our "power of reason" and "mental perception." 

The existence of an orderly universe containing life points to a Creator.

The Bible says: "Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but the one who constructed all things is God." (Hebrews 3:4)

Although this logic is simple, many well-educated people find it to be powerful.   For example, the late astronomer Allan Sandage once said regarding the universe: "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."

Bible writers had scientific knowledge that was beyond the understanding of their contemporaries. For example, in ancient times many peoples believed that the earth was supported by an animal, such as an elephant, a boar, or an ox. In contrast, the Bible says that God is "suspending the earth upon nothing." (Job 26:7) Similarly, the Bible correctly describes the shape of the earth as a "sphere," or "globe. or circle  (Isaiah 40:22) Many people feel that the most reasonable explanation for such advanced understanding is that Bible writers received their information from God.

The Bible answers many difficult questions, the type of questions that when not satisfactorily answered can lead a person to atheism. For example: If God is loving and all-powerful, why is there suffering and evil in the world? Why is Religion so often an influence for bad rather than for good?  See  Titus 1:6  Could it be the unsatisfactory answers to questions has caused you to be where you are?

So have I completely answered the questions posed?  Probably not. However, at the same time, I  hope I have raised questions that honest, open-minded individuals will seek answers to.
You can ask me and I promise to try and answer your questions using reason, logic and the Bible. I like a good challenge.

Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Niya

Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AM
Hello, all.

This post is for the purpose of addressing some common questions often raised by atheists such as, Who or what is God? Why doesn't God prove his existence to me? Where is the evidence for God's existence?

The Bible is a very good place to provide a good answer.  In fact, one Bible verse covers it very well.  In 21st century English, the passage reads...

"...what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them.  For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship,..."  (Romans 1:19, 20).

Thus perception plays a very important part in trying to offer an explanation concerning the Creator.

Many, perhaps most, atheists would accept as proof of the existence of God only evidence they can see, feel, touch and take apart and reassemble in a laboratory setting.  And, of course, that lab would have to be only where they would have unfettered access.

So, let us reason a bit. 

How would I liken the Creator?  Perhaps by looking at the problem in reverse.  Let's look at the problem from God's point of view. 

In Isaiah is a fitting description of the problem and with an element of reason comes understanding.

"There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers...."  Isaiah 40:22

Could you rightly expect a grasshopper to fully explain a human or human accomplishments like the Hubble space telescope?  Or would you be humble enough to learn grasshopper speech and befriend them?  Sounds foolish, correct?  That is the dilemma. 

Further on this line of thought is the difference between humans and chimpanzees is about one percent of DNA.  On that scale what would a creature be like who was one percent greater than humans in their DNA?  If their intellect would follow the same scale, could we ever hope to understand them?  Much less be on par with them?  And yet God is orders of magnitude greater than chimpanzees or grasshopper-like humans.

And here is one item we all see without any understanding.  Something so basic it has no record anywhere in the Bible as having been created.  And that even though many think it is listed among the creations attributed to God.  And what is that?  LIFE.

The Bible tells us this at Psalm 36:9 simply that the 'source of life is God'.  Much has been hypothesized about life.  Some have speculated about life having a chemical nature.  Some have claimed that by assembling certain molecules together they have created life.  But when pressed, they admit they can not and did not create life.  It cannot be disassembled and reassembled.  Some have speculated that life is a form of energy as yet not understood.

And there is God.  If we go back to Romans 1:20 we see it speaks about the creation as giving us insight into God.  So look at the creation.  Focus on Isaiah 40:25, 26.  "To whom can you liken me to make me his equal?" says the Holy One.

26 "Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.  Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number; He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power, Not one of them is missing."

Science today admit every star fulfills a purpose.  Did you know we ourselves are star stuff?  And even the super heavy elements seem to come from the collision of neutron stars. So not even a single star is missing.

Science also tells us eventually the universe itself will run down.  Over 3000 years ago the Psalmist spoke of an immense maintenance project needed to fix the universe itself.  Read for yourself Psalm 102:25-27.  Makes for very interesting reading. 

Oh.  And DNA;  Look at Psalm 139:16.  "Your eyes even saw me as an embryo;  All its parts were written in your book  Regarding the days when they were formed,  Before any of them existed.'  Written more than 3,000 years before we had amassed enough knowledge on our own to understand, how would you explain that passage?

So, for a lowly human to define in human terms a being vastly more complex with knowledge and the ability to make and use forces beyond our comprehension, is at best an exercise in futility. 

But a few things I do know.   The Bible provides compelling evidence that God exists. It encourages us to build faith in God, not by blindly believing religious assertions, but by using our "power of reason" and "mental perception." 

The existence of an orderly universe containing life points to a Creator.

The Bible says: "Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but the one who constructed all things is God." (Hebrews 3:4)

Although this logic is simple, many well-educated people find it to be powerful.   For example, the late astronomer Allan Sandage once said regarding the universe: "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."

Bible writers had scientific knowledge that was beyond the understanding of their contemporaries. For example, in ancient times many peoples believed that the earth was supported by an animal, such as an elephant, a boar, or an ox. In contrast, the Bible says that God is "suspending the earth upon nothing." (Job 26:7) Similarly, the Bible correctly describes the shape of the earth as a "sphere," or "globe. or circle  (Isaiah 40:22) Many people feel that the most reasonable explanation for such advanced understanding is that Bible writers received their information from God.

The Bible answers many difficult questions, the type of questions that when not satisfactorily answered can lead a person to atheism. For example: If God is loving and all-powerful, why is there suffering and evil in the world? Why is Religion so often an influence for bad rather than for good?  See  Titus 1:6  Could it be the unsatisfactory answers to questions has caused you to be where you are?

So have I completely answered the questions posed?  Probably not. However, at the same time, I  hope I have raised questions that honest, open-minded individuals will seek answers to.
You can ask me and I promise to try and answer your questions using reason, logic and the Bible. I like a good challenge.

There is no order in the universe Bob...what are you talking about?
Not that anyone cares what I say, but the Restaurant is on the other end of the universe." –Marvin
-----
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Tank

Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AM
Hello, all.

This post is for the purpose of addressing some common questions often raised by atheists such as, Who or what is God? Why doesn't God prove his existence to me? Where is the evidence for God's existence?
Having met many more atheists than you I have yet to see one ask 'Who or what is God?'. The reason that atheists don't ask this question is because they are atheists. Atheists have already reached the point of understanding that there is no god. God is a legacy fantasy of our, understandingly, ignorant ancestors. We don't expect god to prove his existence because we understand there is no god. One key reason atheists reach the conclusion there is no god is because there is no evidence for the existence of a supernatural realm nor that any part of that realm is sentient nor concerned with an ape on a ball of rock in the middle nowhere. 
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AM
...
The Bible is a very good place to provide a good answer.  In fact, one Bible verse covers it very well.  In 21st century English, the passage reads...

"...what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them.  For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship,..."  (Romans 1:19, 20).

Thus perception plays a very important part in trying to offer an explanation concerning the Creator.


The Bible, or for that matter any holy book, is the very worst place to start to find any answer about a particular unsupported assertion about an alleged supernatural realm or deity. Holy books are propaganda to support an assertion and thus cannot be expected, nor trusted, to be objective about the subject matter they contain. As a holy book is propaganda any assertion therein can be dismissed if there is no objective external verifiable evidence to support it.

""...what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them." No. There is nothing 'clearly evident', if there were there would be one religion and we'd all follow it. There are thousands of gods worshipped by billions of people. There is no evidence that nay of them exist let alone one specific one.

"invisible qualities are clearly seen" really? If they are invisible they cannot be seen. That's what invisible means. Obviously the person who wrote this was functionally illiterate.

"Thus perception plays a very important part in trying to offer an explanation concerning the Creator." on this we can agree. Perception can often bear no relationship to reality and this is the case with superstitions and myths in general, they are reality free zones. Perceptions are also inculcated by upbringing and culture. It's no surprise that Christian parents have Christian children or that Muslim parents have Muslim children. The children's perceptions have be shaped by there experiences while growing up. Humans are at base learning machines. They hover up all that is around them while they are growing up the have been shaped by evolution to do so.

I will continue later. I have work to do now.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

Oh dear, another prosetylising sermoniser with nothing new.

Yawn.

Goodbye, Bob.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tank

Quote from: Gloucester on January 17, 2017, 09:01:21 AM
Oh dear, another prosetylising sermoniser with nothing new.

Yawn.

Goodbye, Bob.
Oh come on you can do better than that.
And I don't mean be rude.
Sharpen your anti-theism skills.
Consider Bob a learning opportunity!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

Quote from: Tank on January 17, 2017, 10:36:20 AM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 17, 2017, 09:01:21 AM
Oh dear, another prosetylising sermoniser with nothing new.

Yawn.

Goodbye, Bob.
Oh come on you can do better than that.
And I don't mean be rude.
Sharpen your anti-theism skills.
Consider Bob a learning opportunity!

No offence taken, Tank.

Lost count of the number of, pointless, "lessons" that I have fruitlessly argued through over the past ten years.

I ain't gonna "convert", chances that Bob will are pretty slim - why waste energy and time?

Now, if there seemed to be the chance that Bob might seek to counter any argument without resorting to the bible and his faith . . . But I would guess that he has only those in his armoury, when I have only rationality (well, a ration if it), evidence or a lack thereof, experience . . .

Tempered by the background feeling that arguing the existence or non-existence of the supernatural are equally futile without evidence either way. Is that teapot out there or not? I have no real idea of the nature of ultimate reality, merely a model of existence that satifies my experience, understanding and ethics. I would not dream of pushing it at another without a specific request.

But, yes, it would be better to simply not comment rather than be negative but I am only human after all, foibled like all others.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tank

Quote from: Gloucester on January 17, 2017, 12:11:26 PM
...

No offence taken, Tank.

...
Glad to here it. I meant don't you be rude to Bob!  :mb lol:
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: Gloucester on January 17, 2017, 12:11:26 PM
Quote from: Tank on January 17, 2017, 10:36:20 AM
Quote from: Gloucester on January 17, 2017, 09:01:21 AM
Oh dear, another prosetylising sermoniser with nothing new.

Yawn.

Goodbye, Bob.
Oh come on you can do better than that.
And I don't mean be rude.
Sharpen your anti-theism skills.
Consider Bob a learning opportunity!

No offence taken, Tank.

Lost count of the number of, pointless, "lessons" that I have fruitlessly argued through over the past ten years.

I ain't gonna "convert", chances that Bob will are pretty slim - why waste energy and time?

Now, if there seemed to be the chance that Bob might seek to counter any argument without resorting to the bible and his faith . . . But I would guess that he has only those in his armoury, when I have only rationality (well, a ration if it), evidence or a lack thereof, experience . . .

Tempered by the background feeling that arguing the existence or non-existence of the supernatural are equally futile without evidence either way. Is that teapot out there or not? I have no real idea of the nature of ultimate reality, merely a model of existence that satifies my experience, understanding and ethics. I would not dream of pushing it at another without a specific request.

But, yes, it would be better to simply not comment rather than be negative but I am only human after all, foibled like all others.

I agree the chances of changing Bob's mind are probably so close to zero it makes no odds what we say to him. He's obviously here to preach and witness and quite possibly may never post again. He's not here to join in or be part of the community. So changing his mind is not the point. The point is to demonstrate the futility of his position to other people who read but never post. The activity equips the 'lurker' with the tools and confidence they may need to deal with other people who share Bob's world view.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Davin

Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AM
Hello, all.

This post is for the purpose of addressing some common questions often raised by atheists such as, Who or what is God? Why doesn't God prove his existence to me? Where is the evidence for God's existence?

The Bible is a very good place to provide a good answer.  In fact, one Bible verse covers it very well.  In 21st century English, the passage reads...
Hi, bob,

How's it going? I see that you're talking like you're an authority on the matter of god. So I will assume that you are an authority on the subject. Because you are an authority, you should be able to answer these questions directly, clearly, and with the support of reliable and verifiable evidence.

What makes what you are claiming about god correct? Keep in mind that we're not on your side of the fence, so what you say must be applied consistently to other people who have made claims about god as well as to what you say.

Why would we trust the bible instead of other books like Dianetics? I mean, to us, on this side of the theistic fence, it all looks like the ramblings of people who didn't know anything about what the real world is like.

How many atheists have you met? Because it looks like, by your straw men, that you don't understand what atheists are actually saying.

Well, that's a start. I hope you get back to me, Bob.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Biggus Dickus

I guess I have to agree with the OP, there certainly is a whole lot of evidence for god out there.

Here:
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And here:
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Here as well:

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I guess this here:
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And finally of course here:

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"Some people just need a high-five. In the face. With a chair."

Asmodean

#12
The Asmo will come to play, will He not? Or is He too busy driving diesel-powered vehicles through the no-diesel zone?

...He wonders...  :???:

EDIT: Yep. He shalt play.

Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AM
Hello, all.

This post is for the purpose of addressing some common questions often raised by atheists such as, Who or what is God? Why doesn't God prove his existence to me? Where is the evidence for God's existence?
Except for the last one, I doubt these are common questions atheists ask. "Who is god" is invalid, since gods are not whos, they are whats. Mythical beings. We don't need to ask about that. "Why doesn't God prove his existence to me" is irrelevant. If such beings existed, I would not expect them to prove anything to me, nor would most serious people regardless of their religious affiliation, I think. The third question starts off on the wrong foot. I don't care where the evidence is - it can be in the pope's ass for my part; I care what it is. That aside, and as implied before, yes, many atheists do ask one version of that third question or another when debating theists.

QuoteThe Bible is a very good place to provide a good answer.  In fact, one Bible verse covers it very well.  In 21st century English, the passage reads...
The Bible?! It doesn't even make for good toilet paper. It's a rather poorly made piece of ancient fiction. To expect it to provide any sort of answer pertaining to reality is foolish. It can indeed be interesting for a variety of cultural and/or literary reasons, but not as a tool in understanding the Universe.

QuoteThus perception plays a very important part in trying to offer an explanation concerning the Creator.
This alone should be enough for most people to put the idea of real gods in a trash bin.

QuoteMany, perhaps most, atheists would accept as proof of the existence of God only evidence they can see, feel, touch and take apart and reassemble in a laboratory setting.  And, of course, that lab would have to be only where they would have unfettered access.
Sorry, but this is just bullshit. Seeing (/hearing/feeling/touching) is believing will get you a fail in your quantum mechanics course. Observation is an important part of science, but the Universe does not conform to the senses of creatures who evolved on a tiny planet in an unremarkable solar system on the outskirts of a galaxy just like billions of other galaxies.

Human senses, you say? Do visualise a five-dimensional space for me, will you? Too hard? How about two-dimensional? (No, not as a sheet of paper floating in three dimensions - that's not what I'm asking here) How about just visualising space-time then?

QuoteSo, let us reason a bit.
An exercise in logic, then? I can't fly. A rock can't fly. Therefore, I am a rock.

QuoteHow would I liken the Creator?  Perhaps by looking at the problem in reverse.  Let's look at the problem from God's point of view.
Weeell... That assumes gods. In fact, that assumes one specific god. Are you allowed to do that in this thought experiment? 

QuoteCould you rightly expect a grasshopper to fully explain a human or human accomplishments like the Hubble space telescope?  Or would you be humble enough to learn grasshopper speech and befriend them?  Sounds foolish, correct?  That is the dilemma.
What is the dilemma, exactly? Also, the point and relevance of the above? You do realize that a creature's nervous system needs to be of a certain complexity to understand things?

QuoteFurther on this line of thought is the difference between humans and chimpanzees is about one percent of DNA.  On that scale what would a creature be like who was one percent greater than humans in their DNA?  If their intellect would follow the same scale, could we ever hope to understand them?  Much less be on par with them?  And yet God is orders of magnitude greater than chimpanzees or grasshopper-like humans.
Ah! Well... Yes. You see, you started off so well with a truly fascinating question, and then you went off and ruined it. Yes, of course we would be able to understand them. They would be physical systems just like we and the chimps are. If you are talking about their motives, which I suspect you are, then the answer is simply irrelevant to their existence or the lack thereof.

QuoteAnd here is one item we all see without any understanding.  Something so basic it has no record anywhere in the Bible as having been created.  And that even though many think it is listed among the creations attributed to God.  And what is that?  LIFE.
Without any what now? We have gathered VAST knowledge about life, if I understand your point correctly. To say we have no understanding of it is ignorant at best. We do, it is of high quality and constantly improving.

QuoteScience today admit every star fulfills a purpose.  Did you know we ourselves are star stuff?  And even the super heavy elements seem to come from the collision of neutron stars. So not even a single star is missing.
Nono, TV-scientists deliberately misuse the word "purpose" and then beat themselves up about it because the dumber sort of gentleman never fails to take that word and put it out of context and blow its meaning out of proportion. The stars have no sentient actor purpose. However, in order for us to exist, generations of stars before us had to explode. They did not explode so that we could exist, but we do exist because they exploded. (Note that this is a shameless simplification of a star's life cycle. There are reasons leading to those cosmic explosions and yes, we understand those too. They more or less boil down to gravity and nuclear fusion)

...Why do I get the feeling that you've been watching Nova, but doing it poorly? If you are indeed interested in understanding the life cycle of stars, I can post a fine wall of text about it, or recommend some nicely popularised TV shows.

QuoteScience also tells us eventually the universe itself will run down.  Over 3000 years ago the Psalmist spoke of an immense maintenance project needed to fix the universe itself.  Read for yourself Psalm 102:25-27.  Makes for very interesting reading.
No, it will not run down. The prevalent hypothesis of today is heat death, I believe? It has to do with entropy. That one is pretty much the reason why time appears only ever to move in one direction. In heat death, the Universe will get continually less ordered until the concept of time becomes irrelevant and the Universe is static and... Cold.

QuoteOh.  And DNA;  Look at Psalm 139:16.  "Your eyes even saw me as an embryo;  All its parts were written in your book  Regarding the days when they were formed,  Before any of them existed.'  Written more than 3,000 years before we had amassed enough knowledge on our own to understand, how would you explain that passage?
Sigh... You are quoting people who had NO understanding of molecular biology why..? To try and impress me with the knowledge they did not possess?

QuoteSo, for a lowly human to define in human terms a being vastly more complex with knowledge and the ability to make and use forces beyond our comprehension, is at best an exercise in futility. 
Bullshit. I already gave you a reason or two for why it's bullshit, so do let us move on.

QuoteBut a few things I do know.   The Bible provides compelling evidence that God exists. It encourages us to build faith in God, not by blindly believing religious assertions, but by using our "power of reason" and "mental perception."
It's not compelling and it's not evidence in the sense in which you want to use the word here. Furthermore, it's not at all encouraging. It's more full of nasty than a bad horror movie.

QuoteThe existence of an orderly universe containing life points to a Creator.
No. Again, if you asked "So why is the Universe orderly then?" then we could have a nice discussion with me telling you about entropy and the Big Bang and the different forces at play and you telling me about Jesus and how gays are abominations unto the LORD, but... You didn't, so we won't.

QuoteAlthough this logic is simple, many well-educated people find it to be powerful.   For example, the late astronomer Allan Sandage once said regarding the universe: "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing."
Appeals to authority mean little to me. I will say no more, although I'm tempted. You see, my work day is over and I'm going home.

QuoteBible writers had scientific knowledge that was beyond the understanding of their contemporaries. For example, in ancient times many peoples believed that the earth was supported by an animal, such as an elephant, a boar, or an ox. In contrast, the Bible says that God is "suspending the earth upon nothing." (Job 26:7) Similarly, the Bible correctly describes the shape of the earth as a "sphere," or "globe. or circle  (Isaiah 40:22) Many people feel that the most reasonable explanation for such advanced understanding is that Bible writers received their information from God.
Appeals to stupidity of others and the ancient so-called "wisdom" mean even less to me than the above.

QuoteThe Bible answers many difficult questions, the type of questions that when not satisfactorily answered can lead a person to atheism. For example: If God is loving and all-powerful, why is there suffering and evil in the world? Why is Religion so often an influence for bad rather than for good?  See  Titus 1:6  Could it be the unsatisfactory answers to questions has caused you to be where you are?
I was bloody well born an Atheist. Being born and staying alive until this very moment is what caused me to be what I am.

So yeah... There you go. One atheist's perspective, which I expect is shared by quite a few. If you are game, I'm game. After I get my ass home, though.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

xSilverPhinx

Bob, Bob, Bob, we do I start, Bob?

On second thought, maybe not today. :notsure:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Recusant

#14
Hello and welcome to HAF, Bob. There are plenty of issues and failures in your post, but I'll just look at one, for the moment.

Quote from: Bob on January 17, 2017, 06:18:28 AMLet's look at the problem from God's point of view.

The Bible in several places explicitly says that humans are incapable of understanding your god. See Romans 11 ("How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?") and Job 36 ("How great is God—beyond our understanding!"), for instance. You're teaching a falsehood above, because the Bible says that no human is capable of adopting your god's point of view. You yourself say that your god is far beyond human understanding. Yet you tell us we can look at a problem from your god's point of view. Why are you trying to confuse us, Bob?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken