Need support - boyfriend is Jehovah

[Thumpalumpacus]

Indeed.  It all depends on the person, too.  I've never been in love with an atheist gal, they've all been believers, and all good women.

[Martin TK]

Well, finally something that is right up MY alley.  My speciality is Marriage and Family, hence relationships.  The advice given so far is good, I would only add this:

Relationships between theists and atheists work all the time, but not without some strain.  There have to be some guidelines, understandings, and a lot of dialog.  I would be lying if I said it would be easy, or if I said that these relationships don't fail on a regular basis, they do.  In order to make them work, you have to respect his views and he yours, and perhaps most importantly, he has to learn to tone it down if it makes you uncomfortable.  Both of you need to set limits, and understand that religion doesn't have to be behind every thought or every conversation or every decision made.  IF that becomes the norm, then you have a serious decision to make.

I don't envy you, I've been very fortunate to have had two wives, both of whom shared a similar world view to mine.  Good luck and if you have any specific things you'd like to discuss we could do so privately, perhaps.

[Martin TK]

Religion, or lack thereof, need not be a bar to a good love.

I completely disagree. At least, for me personally.

But we are all different.

I think it makes things easier if you have similar beliefs, but I don't think it can't happen, especially if both are willing to be flexible.  My wife doesn't believe, but doesn't particularly care to discuss her disbelief, she sees it as personal, whereas I see it as something I want to shout to the masses.  We have an interesting arrangement.

[PoopShoot]

Hmmm interesting take on it poopShoot   so are you saying he will choose sex over religion?

A lot of people do.  Sex, drugs and friends outside of the religion are the most common reasons people end up not getting baptized.  At least that's what my father-in-law tells me (he's an elder).  As he gets involved more and more, they're going to push him to convert you and they're going to tell him to stop doing things they don't like, including having sex with you and eventually even hanging out with you at all if you don't convert.  He will literally be forced to choose between you and the religion.

All the Jo's seem really nice and tolerant... but it seems somewhat fake to me as they are doing it not because they choose to but because they were told and it is written in the book.

It's more complicated than that.  It's not that they're being fake, it's that the propaganda polarizes their ability to treat people well by situation.  It IS a matter of putting on a good face, but it's not conscious on the part of the random everyday JW.

[PoopShoot]

I think it makes things easier if you have similar beliefs, but I don't think it can't happen, especially if both are willing to be flexible.  My wife doesn't believe, but doesn't particularly care to discuss her disbelief, she sees it as personal, whereas I see it as something I want to shout to the masses.  We have an interesting arrangement.

My wife is a theist (former Jehovah, in fact) and we discuss religion all the time.  She and I have come to an understanding that our opinions about religion aren't personal about each other.  It does help that she's not a churchgoer anymore, but she still hols strong religious beliefs and holds the bible to be the word of god.

[Martin TK]

I think it makes things easier if you have similar beliefs, but I don't think it can't happen, especially if both are willing to be flexible.  My wife doesn't believe, but doesn't particularly care to discuss her disbelief, she sees it as personal, whereas I see it as something I want to shout to the masses.  We have an interesting arrangement.

My wife is a theist (former Jehovah, in fact) and we discuss religion all the time.  She and I have come to an understanding that our opinions about religion aren't personal about each other.  It does help that she's not a churchgoer anymore, but she still hols strong religious beliefs and holds the bible to be the word of god.

See it can work out, and dialog is the key, but so is the whole respect thing.  Her not being active in the church and thereby NOT attempting to force you to go, is an important fact in your relationship.  I wonder if the paradigm would change if she suddenly began to "expect" you to see her belief the way she does.  I, also can't help but wonder what might happen as you age, and the whole worrying about your soul comes into play...

[Thumpalumpacus]

See it can work out, and dialog is the key, but so is the whole respect thing.  Her not being active in the church and thereby NOT attempting to force you to go, is an important fact in your relationship. I wonder if the paradigm would change if she suddenly began to "expect" you to see her belief the way she does.  I, also can't help but wonder what might happen as you age, and the whole worrying about your soul comes into play...

It seems to me that'd be a paradigm-shift, by definition.  Their paradigm seems to be tolerance of difference, not expectation of compliance.

[chrome]

Hmmm interesting take on it poopShoot   so are you saying he will choose sex over religion?

A lot of people do.  Sex, drugs and friends outside of the religion are the most common reasons people end up not getting baptized.  At least that's what my father-in-law tells me (he's an elder).  As he gets involved more and more, they're going to push him to convert you and they're going to tell him to stop doing things they don't like, including having sex with you and eventually even hanging out with you at all if you don't convert.  He will literally be forced to choose between you and the religion.

I don't know if I believe that... I have although noticed that he isn't having sex with me as much as he used too - he has deleted all of his porn collection off his computer (60GB worth) and we don't really do anything kinky anymore AND when we do have sex he kind of feels guilty for it which sucks! But I truly believe he won't leave me because I am not a Jo and he won't try to convert me, I just think he will eventually want to marry me.

[PoopShoot]

I don't know if I believe that...

It's their policy.  Unfortunately, i don't have my JW book collection here, it's in Oregon.

But I truly believe he won't leave me because I am not a Jo and he won't try to convert me, I just think he will eventually want to marry me.

Then he won't be allowed to be baptised.  Regardless of his feelings, they will require him to cut off contact with nonbelievers.  He will be forced to attempt to convert you  or face being told he can't be baptised.  That's a pretty black and white thing with them as a group.

[chrome]

But I truly believe he won't leave me because I am not a Jo and he won't try to convert me, I just think he will eventually want to marry me.

Then he won't be allowed to be baptised.  Regardless of his feelings, they will require him to cut off contact with nonbelievers.  He will be forced to attempt to convert you  or face being told he can't be baptised.  That's a pretty black and white thing with them as a group.

I have actually told him of my worries and he reckons that one of his friends who HAS been baptised - his mother who has also been batised is married to a non believer and he seems to think that their church accepts that.

[PoopShoot]

I have actually told him of my worries and he reckons that one of his friends who HAS been baptised - his mother who has also been batised is married to a non believer and he seems to think that their church accepts that.

Was she already married when they baptised her?  You two aren't married, they will bar him from being baptised and they might even bar him from baptism if he marries you before baptism to avoid having to leave you.  I also guarantee you that she is being pressured to convert her husband.

[chrome]

I have actually told him of my worries and he reckons that one of his friends who HAS been baptised - his mother who has also been batised is married to a non believer and he seems to think that their church accepts that.

Was she already married when they baptised her?  You two aren't married, they will bar him from being baptised and they might even bar him from baptism if he marries you before baptism to avoid having to leave you.  I also guarantee you that she is being pressured to convert her husband.

actually you do have a point... He was a Jo when they got married and he feel out of the religion while they were married... hmm some food for thought... really if it came to that and he had to make a choice over me and the religion and he chose religion - then that will have to be, good luck to the fucker!  

[PoopShoot]

if it came to that and he had to make a choice over me and the religion and he chose religion - then that will have to be, good luck to the fucker!  

Unfortunately, that's the sort of thing religion does to people.  While I want to say that it would mean he didn't love you, that's not actually the case.  They push the meme that people will have to give up beloved friends and even family in order to follow "the truth".  The situation you mentioned before is merely an effect of the fact that they also push the meme that divorce is as bad as adultery and the person who files is often expelled from the church for it.

[The Magic Pudding]

When I was about 21 some friends turned to the dark side that is fundamentalism.
I found their motivation questionable.
They enjoyed being part of a group looking down on others.
I'm sure the patriarchal dominance appealed to the guys.
The woman got tired of this after a few years.

I see the adoption of a fairy story to guide your life as a character flaw.
The surrender of reason for faith seems intellectually lazy.
I prefer a relationship with a reasonable person, someone who can think clearly about their partner.
I have no faith in the ability of these born agains to think clearly about anything.

[chrome]

I see the adoption of a fairy story to guide your life as a character flaw.
The surrender of reason for faith seems intellectually lazy.
I prefer a relationship with a reasonable person, someone who can think clearly about their partner.
I have no faith in the ability of these born agains to think clearly about anything.

Interesting take... I agree to some respect - some people really need some sort of religion to get them through day-to-day life. Actually my bf once said that if god wasn't real what would stop him from going around killing everyone and then ultimately killing himself. To me that sounds way fucked up but I can understand it... as god is his reason for everything he doesn't understand and for him to be religious is not a character flaw more of an ingrained understanding... to him it IS reality.