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[Based Opinions] Let kids be kids

Started by Asmodean, December 11, 2018, 09:56:44 AM

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Asmodean

The opinions in this series of essays may be controversial and contain provocative language and general insensitivity... Also, they are likely to be on the rambly side. Note that if you are so inclined, you CAN change my mind. All it takes, is demonstrating that my view is internally inconsistent and/or fallacious and/or factually incorrect.

This post is inspired by a Facebook discussion here


For some time now, I've seen campaigning from politicians, various charitable organizations and individuals alike with the stated end goal of ending bullying at school. Well... I have a few problems with that, and the campaigners can rarely be arsed to address them. Usually, they just call me an asshole and drop the mic, as if being an asshole is somehow enough to invalidate the argument. (Read up on Fritz Zwicky if you are among those. Then, I may give you another name to consider)

The arguments for "zero tolerance" stances on bullying can usually be deconstructed to an emotional appeal; "but won't somebody think of the poor victim," they cry. They cry, and the public listens. After all, who among us has not been on the receiving end of some unpleasantness by the other kids in our wee years? Well... What about the rest of us then, I ask?

Let's get to my anecdote then. I look back at growing up from the arrogant heights of someone who "fought and won," if by my own standards - in this case, the only standards which truly matter. Self-confidence, self-worth, pride in my own achievements... I did not get any of those from being one of "everybody's a winner," or from hearing how darling and special I was. I was told that on occasion, but if I chose to believe it, or act on it as though it was true, and then did not put the work into actually making it so, or maintaining my unique and special superiority over the mediocrity of the gray masses, life usually took little time in kicking me squarely in the nuts, then taking a hammer to my illusions.

I think most of us have been there - some more often than others. I also think that for most of us, those experiences were a valuable part of growing up. When your childhood pet dies, it can be devastating, but you get over it and maybe learn something in the process - to deal with grief and loss. To not take those things in your life, which have "always" been there for granted. That what you have today may well be gone tomorrow. Bad things happen. Sometimes, bad things persist through no fault of your own. It's old news to most adults, but the kids have to actually learn it at some point in order for it to become "old news," which I think this example goes a long way in demonstrating.

Me, I'm a nerd, with all the social niceties that entails when you are a young nerd. For instance, I suck at sports. Never been particularly interested in most of them - never been particularly good at any. I did get my share of "harassment" over that fact, but it's partly what drove me to focus on my intellectual pursuits. That's not the only valid way out of it - I could have hit the gym, or joined a band, but that was a way that worked for me. I couldn't hit that goal if I stood in it, you keep saying? Well, I know that I can do mathematics that would make your hair fall out from just seeing. You may be the alpha dog now, but I am playing the long game.

My point here is not necessarily "find your talents and prove them wrong," as some people just are pretty much talentless, and actively trying to "prove them wrong" may just paint an even bigger target on your back - the abovementioned "alpha dogs" don't respond kindly to challenges. Rather, the point is that... I did not come to my well-adjusted view on my interactions with others through being protected from bruised feelings or eye sockets, or being made to fit in, or being forced to be friendly with people I didn't want anything to do with outside "work setting," or any of that nonsense. It was one fight after another, and on rare occasion those fights involved actual punches being thrown. Some I won, many I lost. I got over it - wins and losses alike. I wish no ill upon any-one who bullied me as a kid.

Note that I am not saying that driving someone to the point of suicide - or homicide, as is "trendy" in certain parts of the world, is acceptable. Obviously, it is not. Still, let the kids be kids. If you as a parent or a teacher or a friend se an actual, real problem... Help the kid in question. That individual kid. Don't try using the law to hinder the bulk of the bell curve from growing up to be regular, well-adjusted people.

Scope: "normal" hierarchy-building interactions among kids. Things like sustained physical violence, or singling-out and subjecting to abuse over time of a person based on characteristics they cannot control are not something I find readily acceptable. Still, I think this is where the parents, the school... The "within-range" adults should step in and dole out some threats, wisdom and learning, but I'll save blaming the parents for later.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

The Facebook-link? The post appears public, and the link is trimmed down to the post number and works for me, so... *scratch* We needs a fifteen year old what knows how Facebook functions.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Sandra Craft

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Asmodean

Originally, yes, but then, based seemed more fitting somehow.  ;)
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Asmodean on December 11, 2018, 06:39:14 PM
Originally, yes, but then, based seemed more fitting somehow.  ;)

Okey-dokey.  You young kids carry on then.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Icarus

Last week, at a middle school in my town, a kid who is five feet eleven inches tall, weighs 210 pounds was the bully.  He attacked a much smaller kid, slammed him to the ground, kicked him in the head. The victim was sent to the hospital with cuts bruises and a serious concussion.  In cases like this, which are by no means uncommon, then I will not agree with the "let kids be kids" line of reasoning.

Until now no charges have been filed against the aggressor.  Result: There is a group of parents out there ready to take up torches and pitch forks.  I can not blame them. 

There are degrees of bullying.  When it gets physically serious, the let kids be kids concept ain't gonna fly with responsible parents.  Families are like that.  Even animal parents will kill in order to defend their offspring.


xSilverPhinx

There are researchers who say that in order to develop resiliency to stress in later years, the individual should experience a variety of stressors in their early life. So I think I see your what you're trying to say with your anecdote. However, people are different, and react differently to stress, depending on the 'programming' of the stress circuitry in their brains, prior experiences, heck, even transgenerational stress can 'program' and can be passed on from grandmother to mother to child, resulting in larger amygdalas and often early maturing HPA axes.

Disorders such as schizophrenia, which is a serious and debilitating disorder which appears in adolescence, can be triggered by a combination of excessive stress interacting with genes that predispose the individual.

PTSD is an abnormal response to excessive, often unpredictable stressors.

In children, anxiety besides a range of psychological problems can result from inappropriate responses to stress.   

And all that without mentioning the psychological effects such as low self-esteem which might result in maladaptive behavioural strategies in later life.   

I don't know if I agree with your point of view. I may have to sleep on it before I form an opinion.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Anne D.

"Rather, the point is that... I did not come to my well-adjusted view on my interactions with others through being protected from bruised feelings or eye sockets, or being made to fit in, or being forced to be friendly with people I didn't want anything to do with outside "work setting," or any of that nonsense. It was one fight after another, and on rare occasion those fights involved actual punches being thrown. Some I won, many I lost. I got over it - wins and losses alike. I wish no ill upon any-one who bullied me as a kid."
The link says the content isn't available, so I don't know what the FB discussion says, but re: the above: Yeah, I had a similar experience. I got and then gave back to the jerks as good as I got. Got socked in the head once and didn't rat out the girl who did it. Taunted her and cut her down verbally instead (I'm somewhat disgusted by that now; I can't imagine that girl had a great home life). I thrived on anger, and it was my fuel to deal with "bullies." But I was lucky. I had a good, solid home life and the luck of the draw to be born with some resiliency genes. I was lucky to have anger in my arsenal. There are plenty of kiddos who didn't and don't have those advantages. It's just not in them. No amount of bullying will toughen them up. And why should they have to be toughened up? School shouldn't have to be a hazing. I'm not particularly bothered by antibullying campaigns for that reason. The abused always tend to ascribe some benefit to their meaningless unnecessary abuse. "My ma beat me senseless, and I'm all the better for it!"

Asmodean

Quote from: Icarus on December 11, 2018, 10:10:50 PM
Last week, at a middle school in my town, a kid who is five feet eleven inches tall, weighs 210 pounds was the bully.  He attacked a much smaller kid, slammed him to the ground, kicked him in the head. The victim was sent to the hospital with cuts bruises and a serious concussion.  In cases like this, which are by no means uncommon, then I will not agree with the "let kids be kids" line of reasoning.

Until now no charges have been filed against the aggressor.  Result: There is a group of parents out there ready to take up torches and pitch forks.  I can not blame them. 

There are degrees of bullying.  When it gets physically serious, the let kids be kids concept ain't gonna fly with responsible parents.  Families are like that.  Even animal parents will kill in order to defend their offspring.
What you describe sounds like assault, which is both unacceptable and potentially criminal, depending on the severity of it and the age of the perpetrator. I suppose if the big kid regularly beat up the smaller one, and in a malicious way (As in, blood, snot and tears, as opposed to playing rough in in a two-way... Way) I may consider it bullying, but from what you describe... Not really, no. If the kid ended up hospitalised, obviously he needed protecting in that specific situation, but that's the job of the parents and the educational institutions. It may take a village - it does not take a country.

Quote from: xSilverPhinx
I don't know if I agree with your point of view. I may have to sleep on it before I form an opinion.
I approve of your process. :D It would be interesting to bring a little science into this conversation. I try to draw the initial Based Opinions from experience alone, so in this series, perhaps even in this very thread, I expect to be wrong to one degree or another.

Quote from: Anne D.The link says the content isn't available, so I don't know what the FB discussion says, but re: the above: Yeah, I had a similar experience.
Oh..! It's not so much a lively debate, as one of our members shared a... I don't want to call it a "meme," exactly... A picture, what had the following text on it;

QuoteKids with special needs are not weird or odd. They only want what everyone else wants... To be accepted. Can I make a request? Is anyone willing to post this in honor of all children who were made in a unique way. Let's see who has a strong heart :love:

Which... I just couldn't resist, so I responded with

Quote from: The AsmoI would absolutely not mock some kid with dyslexia for having dyslexia, nor do I think that makes that kid particularly weird, nor an illiterate fool, yet I can appreciate that to a kid, the way kids establish hierarchic structures can seem quite vicious.

Thus, I understand the sentiment behind this, however, describing something or someone outside of what's expected, and perhaps not in a positive way, as "weird" or "odd..." Well, it just sounds like proper use of the English language to me.

Yes, them weird* kids may want what everyone else wants, and that's perfectly acceptable... And quite beside the point that their wants and wishes do not necessarily make them any less odd*, nor do they mean that those kids ought to be treated differently by their peers than "all the rest."

To put it in terms of what I think is a quite relatable anecdote, I am more or less a normie in most respects, and yet I myself have been called weird when skirting the edges of various bell curves.

*this is not a blanket opinion. for example, I'm not including [severely/visibly] physically and/or mentally disabled people in the scope of this discussion.

I got a couple of replies, which broadly agreed with me, and... That was about it, really. This... The "larger issue" of it has been on my chest for a while, in a purely personal "I do not see myself in your rhetoric" manner, so I got inspired to pull that thumb out of my bottom and... Make this thread.

QuoteI got and then gave back to the jerks as good as I got. Got socked in the head once and didn't rat out the girl who did it. Taunted her and cut her down verbally instead (I'm somewhat disgusted by that now; I can't imagine that girl had a great home life). I thrived on anger, and it was my fuel to deal with "bullies." But I was lucky. I had a good, solid home life and the luck of the draw to be born with some resiliency genes. I was lucky to have anger in my arsenal. There are plenty of kiddos who didn't and don't have those advantages. It's just not in them. No amount of bullying will toughen them up. And why should they have to be toughened up? School shouldn't have to be a hazing. I'm not particularly bothered by antibullying campaigns for that reason. The abused always tend to ascribe some benefit to their meaningless unnecessary abuse. "My ma beat me senseless, and I'm all the better for it!"
I don't think we disagree, rather... We have similar experiences from different angles. It's not the campaigning itself I have a problem with, it's the stated goals of it. "Zero tolerance" here and "we as a society" there... No. If there is a problem, solve it there and then. From this thread alone, and after just a few posts... This is not an issue you can easily stick under some legislative umbrella. Say my school bans all fighting. Say my friend and I enjoy messing with each other on our own time and on our own terms. Why should we be penalized just because someone may view what we are doing as serious? Say I am me, or you, who can deal with it just fine. Would we like to be treated kindly by those above us in the pecking order? I certainly would. But why should it be any-one else's problem unless in a specific, individual case, there be warning signs and undue distress? Et cetera.

One thing worth clarifying, methinks, is that the "end goal" is not necessarily "toughening up," as much as it is... How shall I put it; learning to deal with shit in your life. That's the reason I brought up the pet example. Losing a pet did not make me tougher, but I DID learn what to expect when such things happen.

I'm not saying that you should learn these particular life lessons alone and unguided - as a kid, that can be a near-insurmountable task. What I'm suggesting is that people who are responsible in any particular case take their responsibility. Yes, home conditions matter. They matter a lot. When they are not too good, however, does it not fall to the rest of the support structures around a particular individual - be they school, friends or foster care, to do their best? Of course, you can end up in a situation where your school is shit, your folks are drunks and your friends are assholes. If that be the case, I think you probably need help with a whole mess of other issues before you need help with being bullied.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Anne D.

Quote from: Asmodean on December 12, 2018, 08:57:09 AM
Quote from: Icarus on December 11, 2018, 10:10:50 PM
Last week, at a middle school in my town, a kid who is five feet eleven inches tall, weighs 210 pounds was the bully.  He attacked a much smaller kid, slammed him to the ground, kicked him in the head. The victim was sent to the hospital with cuts bruises and a serious concussion.  In cases like this, which are by no means uncommon, then I will not agree with the "let kids be kids" line of reasoning.

Until now no charges have been filed against the aggressor.  Result: There is a group of parents out there ready to take up torches and pitch forks.  I can not blame them. 

There are degrees of bullying.  When it gets physically serious, the let kids be kids concept ain't gonna fly with responsible parents.  Families are like that.  Even animal parents will kill in order to defend their offspring.
What you describe sounds like assault, which is both unacceptable and potentially criminal, depending on the severity of it and the age of the perpetrator. I suppose if the big kid regularly beat up the smaller one, and in a malicious way (As in, blood, snot and tears, as opposed to playing rough in in a two-way... Way) I may consider it bullying, but from what you describe... Not really, no. If the kid ended up hospitalised, obviously he needed protecting in that specific situation, but that's the job of the parents and the educational institutions. It may take a village - it does not take a country.

Quote from: xSilverPhinx
I don't know if I agree with your point of view. I may have to sleep on it before I form an opinion.
I approve of your process. :D It would be interesting to bring a little science into this conversation. I try to draw the initial Based Opinions from experience alone, so in this series, perhaps even in this very thread, I expect to be wrong to one degree or another.

Quote from: Anne D.The link says the content isn't available, so I don't know what the FB discussion says, but re: the above: Yeah, I had a similar experience.
Oh..! It's not so much a lively debate, as one of our members shared a... I don't want to call it a "meme," exactly... A picture, what had the following text on it;

QuoteKids with special needs are not weird or odd. They only want what everyone else wants... To be accepted. Can I make a request? Is anyone willing to post this in honor of all children who were made in a unique way. Let's see who has a strong heart :love:

Which... I just couldn't resist, so I responded with

Quote from: The AsmoI would absolutely not mock some kid with dyslexia for having dyslexia, nor do I think that makes that kid particularly weird, nor an illiterate fool, yet I can appreciate that to a kid, the way kids establish hierarchic structures can seem quite vicious.

Thus, I understand the sentiment behind this, however, describing something or someone outside of what's expected, and perhaps not in a positive way, as "weird" or "odd..." Well, it just sounds like proper use of the English language to me.

Yes, them weird* kids may want what everyone else wants, and that's perfectly acceptable... And quite beside the point that their wants and wishes do not necessarily make them any less odd*, nor do they mean that those kids ought to be treated differently by their peers than "all the rest."

To put it in terms of what I think is a quite relatable anecdote, I am more or less a normie in most respects, and yet I myself have been called weird when skirting the edges of various bell curves.

*this is not a blanket opinion. for example, I'm not including [severely/visibly] physically and/or mentally disabled people in the scope of this discussion.

I got a couple of replies, which broadly agreed with me, and... That was about it, really. This... The "larger issue" of it has been on my chest for a while, in a purely personal "I do not see myself in your rhetoric" manner, so I got inspired to pull that thumb out of my bottom and... Make this thread.

QuoteI got and then gave back to the jerks as good as I got. Got socked in the head once and didn't rat out the girl who did it. Taunted her and cut her down verbally instead (I'm somewhat disgusted by that now; I can't imagine that girl had a great home life). I thrived on anger, and it was my fuel to deal with "bullies." But I was lucky. I had a good, solid home life and the luck of the draw to be born with some resiliency genes. I was lucky to have anger in my arsenal. There are plenty of kiddos who didn't and don't have those advantages. It's just not in them. No amount of bullying will toughen them up. And why should they have to be toughened up? School shouldn't have to be a hazing. I'm not particularly bothered by antibullying campaigns for that reason. The abused always tend to ascribe some benefit to their meaningless unnecessary abuse. "My ma beat me senseless, and I'm all the better for it!"
I don't think we disagree, rather... We have similar experiences from different angles. It's not the campaigning itself I have a problem with, it's the stated goals of it. "Zero tolerance" here and "we as a society" there... No. If there is a problem, solve it there and then. From this thread alone, and after just a few posts... This is not an issue you can easily stick under some legislative umbrella. Say my school bans all fighting. Say my friend and I enjoy messing with each other on our own time and on our own terms. Why should we be penalized just because someone may view what we are doing as serious? Say I am me, or you, who can deal with it just fine. Would we like to be treated kindly by those above us in the pecking order? I certainly would. But why should it be any-one else's problem unless in a specific, individual case, there be warning signs and undue distress? Et cetera.

One thing worth clarifying, methinks, is that the "end goal" is not necessarily "toughening up," as much as it is... How shall I put it; learning to deal with shit in your life. That's the reason I brought up the pet example. Losing a pet did not make me tougher, but I DID learn what to expect when such things happen.

I'm not saying that you should learn these particular life lessons alone and unguided - as a kid, that can be a near-insurmountable task. What I'm suggesting is that people who are responsible in any particular case take their responsibility. Yes, home conditions matter. They matter a lot. When they are not too good, however, does it not fall to the rest of the support structures around a particular individual - be they school, friends or foster care, to do their best? Of course, you can end up in a situation where your school is shit, your folks are drunks and your friends are assholes. If that be the case, I think you probably need help with a whole mess of other issues before you need help with being bullied.


Thanks for the info and added explanation. I think I see what you're saying now. I especially like this:

One thing worth clarifying, methinks, is that the "end goal" is not necessarily "toughening up," as much as it is... How shall I put it; learning to deal with shit in your life.

I agree that adult intervention is not wanted, needed, or helpful in many situations. I think, though, that I'd probably be quicker than you to draw the line at which some kind of adult intervention is needed.

Also, I think certain situations where an adult is a silent observer (as opposed to just absent) can really do a lot of harm. The most vulnerable kids will not register that as "I think you can deal with this yourself" but as "you're not worthy of intervention" or "you deserve what you're getting." In those situations, I think adult intervention is warranted. Although I take your point that "zero tolerance"--if that means the "bully" must be somehow officially sanctioned--is a bit much. With "adult intervention" I'm thinking more along the lines of a well-timed "nobody likes an asshole" given with a withering look (if it's a situation involving only verbal abuse)--just something that signals to the "bullied" kid that he's "seen" and that the bully's behavior is Not Cool, without making too big a fuss or embarrassing the bullied kid further.

Icarus

I am a firm believer that not only kids but quite a few adults will more nearly prosper when they learn that they must learn to deal with some shit in their lives.   We have a term for those who have not gotten the message yet: Snowflake.

I am thoroughly annoyed by the practice in a few colleges that establish "safe zones" where no controversy is allowed.  WTF !  The world out there is not a Utopian place.  The college kids who put up massive demonstrations to reject a guest speaker who has what they believe to be radical views need some help to learn about the real world.  That idiocy is going down at some of our finest universities.  To that I say: Bullshit kids, learn to suck it up because that is not the way life works.

But then there is the other kinds of idiocy....A few weeks ago, nearby but not in my town, a sociologically deficient mother  drove her daughter across town to meet another young girl. The purpose was to have the daughter beat up the other girl for some real or  imagined slight.  The aggressor  girl ,  prevailed and inflicted injury to the supposed offender.  The mother is in jail for her promotion of an unnecessary act of ignorant stupidity. All that bullshit was because the victim girl had said that the aggressor girl was not pretty or that she was fat or some other insult that teen aged kids often spout..  I reckon that the Asmo is referring to circumstances of that sort.  In that regard I agree.


Asmodean

#12
Quote from: Anne D. on December 12, 2018, 06:41:27 PM
Thanks for the info and added explanation. I think I see what you're saying now. I especially like this:

One thing worth clarifying, methinks, is that the "end goal" is not necessarily "toughening up," as much as it is... How shall I put it; learning to deal with shit in your life.

I agree that adult intervention is not wanted, needed, or helpful in many situations. I think, though, that I'd probably be quicker than you to draw the line at which some kind of adult intervention is needed.

Also, I think certain situations where an adult is a silent observer (as opposed to just absent) can really do a lot of harm. The most vulnerable kids will not register that as "I think you can deal with this yourself" but as "you're not worthy of intervention" or "you deserve what you're getting." In those situations, I think adult intervention is warranted. Although I take your point that "zero tolerance"--if that means the "bully" must be somehow officially sanctioned--is a bit much. With "adult intervention" I'm thinking more along the lines of a well-timed "nobody likes an asshole" given with a withering look (if it's a situation involving only verbal abuse)--just something that signals to the "bullied" kid that he's "seen" and that the bully's behavior is Not Cool, without making too big a fuss or embarrassing the bullied kid further.
Yes, you are very much onto something - something "zero tolerance" policies do not address. It may well be that it's not the alleged bully or his/her immediate network that's the problem. It may just as easily be that the person experiencing bullying is being failed by theirs.

My problem with what's being campaigned for, is precisely that. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but the whole thing reeks of externalising responsibility. Further, I don't buy into the whole "always side with the victim" narrative. Always help the victim, yes, but that does not in itself mean siding against somebody else. I can't see how sanctioning against, or [at worst] out-right criminalizing schoolyard bullying as a matter of general principle will actually help too many people. On the flipside, I can easily see it hurting a whole lot of "regular" kids in the long run. 

Quote from: IcarusI am a firm believer that not only kids but quite a few adults will more nearly prosper when they learn that they must learn to deal with some shit in their lives.   We have a term for those who have not gotten the message yet: Snowflake.

I am thoroughly annoyed by the practice in a few colleges that establish "safe zones" where no controversy is allowed.  WTF !  The world out there is not a Utopian place.  The college kids who put up massive demonstrations to reject a guest speaker who has what they believe to be radical views need some help to learn about the real world.  That idiocy is going down at some of our finest universities.  To that I say: Bullshit kids, learn to suck it up because that is not the way life works.

But then there is the other kinds of idiocy....A few weeks ago, nearby but not in my town, a sociologically deficient mother  drove her daughter across town to meet another young girl. The purpose was to have the daughter beat up the other girl for some real or  imagined slight.  The aggressor  girl ,  prevailed and inflicted injury to the supposed offender.  The mother is in jail for her promotion of an unnecessary act of ignorant stupidity. All that bullshit was because the victim girl had said that the aggressor girl was not pretty or that she was fat or some other insult that teen aged kids often spout..  I reckon that the Asmo is referring to circumstances of that sort.  In that regard I agree.
I want to have your baby.  :tellmemore:

There are absolute idiots on every imaginable side of this, which is precisely why I try to promote individual approach rather than sweeping policy-writing or even worse, legislation. For example, that thing with the mohter and her daughter... That's assault. There are already rules and regulations for that. If, however, me and a couple of friends consentually beat the crap out of each other, and stop when one asks us to or seems too distressed... As long as the blood aint gushing and the bones aint snapping, a problem it is not. That's how we learn to interact; what hurts and what doesn't, when is someone acting in anger and when in play, where do the very many lines better left uncrossed go... There is a long list of valuable wisdom in it.

Yes, they are two examples from two different worlds, but efforts are being made to unite them and a myriad things inbetween, under the same umbrella.

I think my next Based Opinions will indeed be about the college "safe space" culture and the kind of "useless adult" an increasing number of colleges actively help mould in the year of our Asmo 2018.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

joeactor

Some level of adversity can build character and make one stronger in the end.

Quote"Strength through adversity. The strongest steel is forged by the fires of hell. It is pounded and struck repeatedly before it's plunged back into the molten fire. The fire gives it power and flexibility, and the blows give it strength. Those two things make the metal pliable and able to withstand every battle it's called upon to fight. (Savitar)"

― Sherrilyn Kenyon, Devil May Cry

Icarus

In the same ball park but way out in left field for this discussion is this:  A high school in Wisconsin was having some sort of ceremony that they called Pre-prom.   About 15 boys were posing for a picture to be taken by one of the fathers.  The father told them to wave as if saying goodbye to their parents or their school.  Their wave much too much resembled the Nazi salute. Straight arm, fingers together, slightly elevated  hand.  Somehow the picture found its' way onto some of the social media sites like Facebook.  Shit hits the fan with a resounding splat.

People of color, Jews, Mormans, JWs, Homosexual people, Rumanian gypsies and others are offended big time. It has become almost a national scandal.  There is much discussion about what to do with the situation.  In my mind, the boys were doing typical dumb shit that adolescents do. In many other peoples mind, the kids need to be severely punished.  The school administration is feeling lots of heat.  I think that the whole thing is being blown all out of proportion

What is one to conclude about that sort of thing.