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Religious people everywhere

Started by walkerneo, August 07, 2010, 04:01:31 PM

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Kylyssa

Quote from: "George"Notself and Kylysa - Where you live sounds terrible!

Reminded me of that song from athists experience, I'm gonna punch you in the head for Jesus!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw

When I was at school it'd be more likely to be the religeious ones who'd get bullied for their beliefs. Come to think of it I can't actually remember coming across any actively religeous kids at my school. Sounds like a different world over there!

Gonna come and 'do' America one day as I've never been, sounds like I'll have to be careful, I can imagine myself putting my foot in it left, right and centre!

I moved from a county with a population of around 27,000 to one with a population of around 600,000 and it has made a world of difference.  It's not exactly 100% safe to be an out atheist here, if you work outside the home (I'm a freelance writer) you might lose your job or you might suffer a bit of vandalism but no one will beat anyone's children at school if the kids gets found to have a non-Christian parent.  I have no children, BTW, but I feel much safer here in the Greater Grand Rapids area than back in dear old Hart.

If you are a tourist, most of Americans don't care a whit about your religious beliefs as long as you spend money.  Just don't settle down in a small American town if you want to avoid the possibility of religious problems.  

The fricking hilarious thing about Oceana County (where I grew up) is that every year a place called Whiskey Creek holds what may be the world's largest Womyn's Music Festival, more than doubling the county's population for a couple of weeks each summer.  Because the festival brings in money, citizens there tolerate it and just make a few rude remarks about it now and then.  But if you were to just be a resident there and be an out lesbian, I'd fear for your life and safety.

Tank

Quote from: "karadan"Oh, by the way, i found this rather lovely piece written by a theist on the boston.com website http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/0 ... riage.html about the recent overturning of prop 8.

I am a Christian. I believe strongly that the common interpretation of what the Bible says about homosexuality is wrong, and that it is based on mistranslation and cultural misinterpretation of the original text. When read with understanding of the original language, the culture of the time, the intent of the author, and a larger theological perspective there is no real Biblical support for condemning homosexual relationships on the basis of gender alone. The Bible is far more concerned with promiscuity and divorce, frankly.

That said, none of that matters because at least in the U.S. our laws are not dictated by the Bible or the beliefs of any religion. It doesn't matter what you think is religiously right or wrong. The question we ask when we make a law for or against something is whether the act in question causes harm to others, restricts the freedom of others, or endangers the fabric of society or the safety of the country as a whole.

I know a lot of people FEEL like homosexuality and gay marriage hurt others, but all the empirical evidence we have shows otherwise. There is objective harm harm to straight marriages, there is no harm to children involved, there is no public healthy risk. All arguments other than "the Bible says" and "I just think it's wrong" fail the test of law. And denying marriage restricts freedoms of one segment of the population over another. If you don't like the Constitution, move.



Goes to show there are lots of awesome theists out there.

A sensible view for sure.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: "Kylyssa"The fricking hilarious thing about Oceana County (where I grew up) is that every year a place called Whiskey Creek holds what may be the world's largest Womyn's Music Festival, more than doubling the county's population for a couple of weeks each summer.  Because the festival brings in money, citizens there tolerate it and just make a few rude remarks about it now and then.  But if you were to just be a resident there and be an out lesbian, I'd fear for your life and safety.

Reminds me of this song and the associated attitude

[youtube:3bh9m557]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJEKhLZ2lPk[/youtube:3bh9m557]
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

notself

Living in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.  Conformity in religious views is paramount.  There is great suspicion of education in general and higher education in particular.  This is manifest by so much mistrust of public schools that as many children are homeschooled as are enrolled in public schools. Children are allowed to attend the local two year college but are discouraged from getting a degree at a 4 year institution.  Parents believe that education leads to loss of faith and they rather their children be devout than educated.  Most people attend religious services twice a week and some three times a week.  Town officials lead people in prayer at public events.  In my county, one cannot buy a drink at a restaurant without joining a sham "private club".  One cannot buy alcohol at all on Sunday.  Rural states lead the nation in teen pregnancy, meth labs, and sexually transmitted disease.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... rths_N.htm http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm  

Most of the armed forces of the United States are from religiously conservative areas.  Fundamentalist religion has permeated all sections of the military.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washi ... hurch.html  

Watch this video from Al Jazeera on religion in the American military. Just because I am paranoid about religion doesn't mean that my paranoia is not well founded.  Undermine the schools, control the media and the military and fundamentalist Christians can control the country.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 10845.html

humblesmurph

I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Tank

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.
Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "notself"Living in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.  Conformity in religious views is paramount.  There is great suspicion of education in general and higher education in particular.  This is manifest by so much mistrust of public schools that as many children are homeschooled as are enrolled in public schools. Children are allowed to attend the local two year college but are discouraged from getting a degree at a 4 year institution.  Parents believe that education leads to loss of faith and they rather their children be devout than educated.  Most people attend religious services twice a week and some three times a week.  Town officials lead people in prayer at public events.  In my county, one cannot buy a drink at a restaurant without joining a sham "private club".  One cannot buy alcohol at all on Sunday.  Rural states lead the nation in teen pregnancy, meth labs, and sexually transmitted disease.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... rths_N.htm http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm  

Most of the armed forces of the United States are from religiously conservative areas.  Fundamentalist religion has permeated all sections of the military.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washi ... hurch.html  

Watch this video from Al Jazeera on religion in the American military. Just because I am paranoid about religion doesn't mean that my paranoia is not well founded.  Undermine the schools, control the media and the military and fundamentalist Christians can control the country.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 10845.html

Yeah, I've lived in both rural and urban America, from East Texas and central Illinois to California.  While there are many rural areas such as you describe, they are hardly representative of small-town America as a whole, in my experience.  It is the generalization of your personal experience to the breadth of America that arouses my objection.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "Tank"
Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.
Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

[Emphasis by Thump]

Regarding the emphasized passage, is it not the case in Europe too that the media focus on the loudmouths?

To answer your hypotheticals, in order:

1) I would bring the cross on the lawn to the attention of the ACLU, and watch the suit wend through the system, until the display was struck down, by lawful means.

2) I have, indirectly, taken up arms in defense of the Constitution.  I gather, however, you don't mean in the military; if that is your gist, then the answer is no, I haven't, because there is no need to have done so.

3) I took my honorable discharge 20 years ago; however, I do not regard my oath to defend the Constitution as having lapsed.  I would die happy if by my death I knew I would ensure the longer life of the Bill of Rights.

4) Americans aren't required to be self-sacrificial.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

pinkocommie

I was raised in rural Washington and nothing that's been said about rural America can be applied to me or the majority of my peers.  My extended family all come from rural Iowa, and from what I've been told, the characterization of rural America that's been put forth wouldn't apply to them either.  Not all rural America is backwards, stupid and intensely religious.  Some of it certainly is, but definitely not all of it.

Also, from what I've been told, Al Jazeera is about as reputable a news source as FOX News.  Is that not true?
Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
http://alliedatheistalliance.blogspot.com/

Tank

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Regarding the emphasized passage, is it not the case in Europe too that the media focus on the loudmouths?

Yes they most definitely do, which would imply that we (Europeans) get the same distorted impression of the USA. That is rather good to hear!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Thumpalumpacus

Illegitimi non carborundum.

humblesmurph

#41
Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Quote from: "Tank"Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

By "we" I mean the collective "we"--as in "we the people".  Whenever there is some controversy that affects the public at large the first question that is raised is "is this constitutional?".  Our elected officials are not in position to put the bible ahead of that question.  Extremists are just that, a small number of people at the far end of the spectrum.  

If there had to be a fight, it wouldn't be physical in nature.  I personally would join thousands of other non-christians in non-violent protest if there was a giant cross in front of the White House.  

As for the "fanatical army general", he'd be in direct opposition of the law.  Only a relatively small number of soldiers would follow.  Unfortunately for them, they'd be quickly snuffed out by the rest of the army and the combined might of the other branches of the military.  The survivors would likely be hung.  Nasty stuff indeed, but far from a holy civil war. The actual fighting might last a day or two.

KDbeads

Quote from: "notself"Living in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.  Conformity in religious views is paramount.  There is great suspicion of education in general and higher education in particular.  This is manifest by so much mistrust of public schools that as many children are homeschooled as are enrolled in public schools. Children are allowed to attend the local two year college but are discouraged from getting a degree at a 4 year institution.  Parents believe that education leads to loss of faith and they rather their children be devout than educated.  Most people attend religious services twice a week and some three times a week.  Town officials lead people in prayer at public events.  In my county, one cannot buy a drink at a restaurant without joining a sham "private club".  One cannot buy alcohol at all on Sunday.  Rural states lead the nation in teen pregnancy, meth labs, and sexually transmitted disease.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... rths_N.htm http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm  

Most of the armed forces of the United States are from religiously conservative areas.  Fundamentalist religion has permeated all sections of the military.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washi ... hurch.html  

Watch this video from Al Jazeera on religion in the American military. Just because I am paranoid about religion doesn't mean that my paranoia is not well founded.  Undermine the schools, control the media and the military and fundamentalist Christians can control the country.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 10845.html

Gee, it sounds like we live in the same county almost!
Most big city Americans and those abroad have no idea what it's like living in fear of small minded towns finding out you are not religious.  Yep, I lie through my teeth more often than not, even my 'friends' here would turn and toss the first stones should they find out.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

Tank

Quote from: "humblesmurph"
Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Quote from: "Tank"Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

By "we" I mean the collective "we"--as in "we the people".  Whenever there is some controversy that affects the public at large the first question that is raised is "is this constitutional?".  Our elected officials are not in position to put the bible ahead of that question.  Extremists are just that, a small number of people at the far end of the spectrum.  

If there had to be a fight, it wouldn't be physical in nature.  I personally would join thousands of other non-christians in non-violent protest if there was a giant cross in front of the White House.  

As for the "fanatical army general", he'd be in direct opposition of the law.  Only a relatively small number of soldiers would follow.  Unfortunately for them, they'd be quickly snuffed out by the rest of the army and the combined might of the other branches of the military.  The survivors would likely be hung.  Nasty stuff indeed, but far from a holy civil war. The actual fighting might last a day or two.
Might make a good film script?  :D
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

humblesmurph

I looked.  I couldn't find any movies about Christian extremists trying to take over the US.  It would make a great movie Tank.  Are you a writer?