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Winnie Madikizela-Mandela: Anti-apartheid campaigner dies at 81

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Bad Penny II:
I was a bit surprised to wake up and hear pretty much total praise for Winnie, I had the impression she wasn't very nice at all.

She was accused of conducting a virtual reign of terror in parts of Soweto by other members of the ANC in the late 1980s, and heard backing the practice of "necklacing" - putting burning tyres around suspected informants' necks.


Dave:

--- Quote from: Bad Penny II on April 03, 2018, 12:07:03 PM ---I was a bit surprised to wake up and hear pretty much total praise for Winnie, I had the impression she wasn't very nice at all.

She was accused of conducting a virtual reign of terror in parts of Soweto by other members of the ANC in the late 1980s, and heard backing the practice of "necklacing" - putting burning tyres around suspected informants' necks.

--- End quote ---

I agree, she certainly played a part in the anti-apartheid days but later, in the objective view, she seemed to be less than an asset for South Africa's image in the global picture.

Come to think about it the movers and shakers down there often seem their own worst enemies. I hope Hermes gives us his perspective on this.

hermes2015:

--- Quote from: Dave on April 03, 2018, 12:41:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Bad Penny II on April 03, 2018, 12:07:03 PM ---I was a bit surprised to wake up and hear pretty much total praise for Winnie, I had the impression she wasn't very nice at all.

She was accused of conducting a virtual reign of terror in parts of Soweto by other members of the ANC in the late 1980s, and heard backing the practice of "necklacing" - putting burning tyres around suspected informants' necks.

--- End quote ---

I agree, she certainly played a part in the anti-apartheid days but later, in the objective view, she seemed to be less than an asset for South Africa's image in the global picture.

Come to think about it the movers and shakers down there often seem their own worst enemies. I hope Hermes gives us his perspective on this.

--- End quote ---

There is no doubt that she encouraged murder and was an endless source of embarrassment to her husband. I am not very political, although in my student days was on the security police list of suspect people, but that was mainly because of certain friends I had. In the first free elections I, and many other "liberal" people voted for the ANC, only to be felt betrayed and let down later. Mandela was a decent person, but the rest of his family are bad news. The wheels have turned completely, and now it is very hard to find any ANC supporters among liberals and other thinking people. Support the Democratic Alliance has grown tremendously. The ANC has become synonymous with corruption and inefficiency. Of all the people formerly involved in the anti-apartheid struggle, I have most respect for Desmond Tutu and Ronnie Kasrils, who are both intelligent and honourable people.

Dave:

--- Quote from: hermes2015 on April 03, 2018, 03:24:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dave on April 03, 2018, 12:41:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Bad Penny II on April 03, 2018, 12:07:03 PM ---
I was a bit surprised to wake up and hear pretty much total praise for Winnie, I had the impression she wasn't very nice at all.

She was accused of conducting a virtual reign of terror in parts of Soweto by other members of the ANC in the late 1980s, and heard backing the practice of "necklacing" - putting burning tyres around suspected informants' necks.

--- End quote ---

I agree, she certainly played a part in the anti-apartheid days but later, in the objective view, she seemed to be less than an asset for South Africa's image in the global picture.

Come to think about it the movers and shakers down there often seem their own worst enemies. I hope Hermes gives us his perspective on this.

--- End quote ---

There is no doubt that she encouraged murder and was an endless source of embarrassment to her husband. I am not very political, although in my student days was on the security police list of suspect people, but that was mainly because of certain friends I had. In the first free elections I, and many other "liberal" people voted for the ANC, only to be felt betrayed and let down later. Mandela was a decent person, but the rest of his family are bad news. The wheels have turned completely, and now it is very hard to find any ANC supporters among liberals and other thinking people. Support the Democratic Alliance has grown tremendously. The ANC has become synonymous with corruption and inefficiency. Of all the people formerly involved in the anti-apartheid struggle, I have most respect for Desmond Tutu and Ronnie Kasrils, who are both intelligent and honourable people.

--- End quote ---

Pretty much what I expected, Hermes. Her support for "necklacing" alone would have demolished any respect I felt for her.

They mentioned another actor whose name was not familiar to me, and which I did not really catch on the radio item, the charismatic leader of some party or group with "liberation army" in its name? Whenever I hear that phrase I am left with the feeling that the violence is nowhere near over. Got the impression that his visit to the family (with a large following) was unexpected but he claimed a sort of part ownership - in words of unity that might be purely cynical - of the political legacy attached to Winnie Mandela.

hermes2015:

--- Quote from: Dave on April 03, 2018, 05:14:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: hermes2015 on April 03, 2018, 03:24:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dave on April 03, 2018, 12:41:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Bad Penny II on April 03, 2018, 12:07:03 PM ---
I was a bit surprised to wake up and hear pretty much total praise for Winnie, I had the impression she wasn't very nice at all.

She was accused of conducting a virtual reign of terror in parts of Soweto by other members of the ANC in the late 1980s, and heard backing the practice of "necklacing" - putting burning tyres around suspected informants' necks.

--- End quote ---

I agree, she certainly played a part in the anti-apartheid days but later, in the objective view, she seemed to be less than an asset for South Africa's image in the global picture.

Come to think about it the movers and shakers down there often seem their own worst enemies. I hope Hermes gives us his perspective on this.

--- End quote ---

There is no doubt that she encouraged murder and was an endless source of embarrassment to her husband. I am not very political, although in my student days was on the security police list of suspect people, but that was mainly because of certain friends I had. In the first free elections I, and many other "liberal" people voted for the ANC, only to be felt betrayed and let down later. Mandela was a decent person, but the rest of his family are bad news. The wheels have turned completely, and now it is very hard to find any ANC supporters among liberals and other thinking people. Support the Democratic Alliance has grown tremendously. The ANC has become synonymous with corruption and inefficiency. Of all the people formerly involved in the anti-apartheid struggle, I have most respect for Desmond Tutu and Ronnie Kasrils, who are both intelligent and honourable people.

--- End quote ---

Pretty much what I expected, Hermes. Her support for "necklacing" alone would have demolished any respect I felt for her.

They mentioned another actor whose name was not familiar to me, and which I did not really catch on the radio item, the charismatic leader of some party or group with "liberation army" in its name? Whenever I hear that phrase I am left with the feeling that the violence is nowhere near over. Got the impression that his visit to the family (with a large following) was unexpected but he claimed a sort of part ownership - in words of unity that might be purely cynical - of the political legacy attached to Winnie Mandela.

--- End quote ---

In a mix of first world and third world communities that only really interact in the workplace, it is inevitable that the very vocal radicals, who are actually in the minority, should attract the support of lesser educated citizens. This is found on the left and the right. There is a large and sensible "silent majority" here that tends to keep things on an even keel. It's probably only by visiting that one can get a better feeling for the situation.

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