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Jesus vs Muhammad

Started by zustri, January 24, 2018, 02:48:18 AM

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zustri

Quote from: Dave on January 24, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 24, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 02:48:18 AM
I  Does this prove NDEs are true?

No.  It just shows (if your statistics are correct) that 13% of people who have NDEs see Jesus.

I would just love to know why no reports come from Muhammad. People dream about him, so if NDEs are hallucinations, shouldn't they be able to hallucinate him?

Well, I am guessing, if this is a serious question . . .

Consider the perception of Jesus and Muhammad in the minds of the followers of Christianity and Islam. Jesus, "Christ", is seen as a deity in his own right, one of the "Trinity". You could say - in Christian eyes - he outranks Muhammad, a mere note taker - like Abraham. Also it has never been agsinst the rules to depict Jesus, though I think depictions of Muhammad were allowed in the early days Wiki. Now it is a capital offence, even for non-Muslims it seems.

Jesus is usually depicted more as a European than a man of Near Eastern extraction - so ask those who "see" him what he looks lke - if he was a blue eyed blonde chances are it's a double-decker delusion. Some interesting pictures here, none of yer medieval nancy-boy stuff!

I understand that the Jewish "saviour" has yet to show him or herself - and they are not even allowed to utter the name of their god in full as I understand it. So no chance of an images on the toast, in the dog's ear (or rear end) or at the edge of death yet then.

Usually people say Jesus has a brown beard, dark hair, some say he has pretty tanned skin, some say they saw a figure who they "knew to be Jesus" others say he was clean shaven. Most say he had big beautiful eyes. I inquired why the images of Jesus vary, and got the response that everyone has a unique NDE to suit them. Each person will see Jesus as they imagine him because it is a spiritual experience and they must learn. I don't know if I believe that. It is just as likely that people see different images because their brains are not going to think of Jesus in exactly the same way, but I'm not sure. I have seen many people online write about dreaming about Muhammad though, and they want to as it allows it in the Hadith. I am surpirsed that they wouldn't want to say they met him in an NDE.

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 24, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 02:48:18 AM
I  Does this prove NDEs are true?

No.  It just shows (if your statistics are correct) that 13% of people who have NDEs see Jesus.

I would just love to know why no reports come from Muhammad. People dream about him, so if NDEs are hallucinations, shouldn't they be able to hallucinate him?

Muhammad occupies a different status to the Muslim than Jesus does to the Christian.  Muhammad is a prophet; Jesus is the Son of God to Christians.   Slight difference.  He is basically God himself in Christians' minds.  So they expect to see him at death.   

Icarus

Dammit !!!!   I had hoped that Zustri would do his/her first posts with something interesting or neutral. Maybe tell us that he/she is an orthopedist or a professional unicycle rider or  author of sci-fi novels, or ???    No the first thing out of the box is some religious speculation bullshit.  I had hoped for a better beginning.

:wtf:  :Gaah:

Tank

Quote from: Icarus on January 24, 2018, 09:24:23 PM
Dammit !!!!   I had hoped that Zustri would do his/her first posts with something interesting or neutral. Maybe tell us that he/she is an orthopedist or a professional unicycle rider or  author of sci-fi novels, or ???    No the first thing out of the box is some religious speculation bullshit.  I had hoped for a better beginning.

:wtf:  :Gaah:

I know the feeling.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 09:20:14 PM
Quote from: Dave on January 24, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 24, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: zustri on January 24, 2018, 02:48:18 AM
I  Does this prove NDEs are true?

No.  It just shows (if your statistics are correct) that 13% of people who have NDEs see Jesus.

I would just love to know why no reports come from Muhammad. People dream about him, so if NDEs are hallucinations, shouldn't they be able to hallucinate him?

Well, I am guessing, if this is a serious question . . .

Consider the perception of Jesus and Muhammad in the minds of the followers of Christianity and Islam. Jesus, "Christ", is seen as a deity in his own right, one of the "Trinity". You could say - in Christian eyes - he outranks Muhammad, a mere note taker - like Abraham. Also it has never been agsinst the rules to depict Jesus, though I think depictions of Muhammad were allowed in the early days Wiki. Now it is a capital offence, even for non-Muslims it seems.

Jesus is usually depicted more as a European than a man of Near Eastern extraction - so ask those who "see" him what he looks lke - if he was a blue eyed blonde chances are it's a double-decker delusion. Some interesting pictures here, none of yer medieval nancy-boy stuff!

I understand that the Jewish "saviour" has yet to show him or herself - and they are not even allowed to utter the name of their god in full as I understand it. So no chance of an images on the toast, in the dog's ear (or rear end) or at the edge of death yet then.

Usually people say Jesus has a brown beard, dark hair, some say he has pretty tanned skin, some say they saw a figure who they "knew to be Jesus" others say he was clean shaven. Most say he had big beautiful eyes. I inquired why the images of Jesus vary, and got the response that everyone has a unique NDE to suit them. Each person will see Jesus as they imagine him because it is a spiritual experience and they must learn. I don't know if I believe that. It is just as likely that people see different images because their brains are not going to think of Jesus in exactly the same way, but I'm not sure. I have seen many people online write about dreaming about Muhammad though, and they want to as it allows it in the Hadith. I am surpirsed that they wouldn't want to say they met him in an NDE.

Hmm, still no references then, zustri?

People who believe in fantasy are more liable to "experience" fantastical thigs I am thining. Islam is a bit of a life controlling belief, perhaps living with its tenets and precepts every day just turns it into a habit. Maybe Islam could be considered more "practical" than  most versions of Christianity?
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus

Why can't the new arrivals ( or sock puppets or trolls)  understand that this forum is not a religious forum or that we do not give a rats ass about any of the variations of spiritual beings or mythical happenings.? 

All one needs do is take a look at the numerous subject headings. The main headings that concern religion amount to just two out of twelve.  Most of the time they are not even well attended.  We are more into political cartoons, book groups, sciences,  weather reports from global members, plenty of fun stuff, Music, history, and caring about the welfare, health, and happiness of our remarkably erudite little family. Why is that so hard to see?

Look at the index of subject matter all you strangers who come, I must say, in the beginning, respectfully invited to this happy place. 

Sandra Craft

#21
Quote from: Tank on January 24, 2018, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: Icarus on January 24, 2018, 09:24:23 PM
Dammit !!!!   I had hoped that Zustri would do his/her first posts with something interesting or neutral. Maybe tell us that he/she is an orthopedist or a professional unicycle rider or  author of sci-fi novels, or ???    No the first thing out of the box is some religious speculation bullshit.  I had hoped for a better beginning.

:wtf:  :Gaah:

I know the feeling.

Just more of the same old-same old, isn't it?

I found this interesting article on NDEs from ScienceAlert: Near Death Experience Study Explores The Common Ground in What Is Felt And Seen

What's interesting to me is that of all the people studied who had NDEs, only 4% had a vision of any kind, meaning that 96% saw nothing at all.  Zip, nada, goose egg.  Using the standard of majority experience = truth, that would confirm that there is no afterlife of any kind and all religions featuring a god are wrong.  Not exactly what I think the OP wanted to establish.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Icarus on January 24, 2018, 11:03:30 PM
Why can't the new arrivals ( or sock puppets or trolls)  understand that this forum is not a religious forum or that we do not give a rats ass about any of the variations of spiritual beings or mythical happenings.? 

Boredom is my first guess.  My second, harsher, guess is that all the fellow believers in their lives got fed up with them and won't talk with them any more.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Icarus

^ Luv ya Sandy.  And Mags, Velma, Essie, Harmonie, Silver, Buddy, Dragonia, PC, Maria, and any of the other of you girls that I may have failed to mention.  Do not take that as to imply anything even remotely sexual.  It is all about the appreciation of the people that are so tolerant of this old man.  It ain't kool for me to say that I love the guys but I do like and respect them all, a plenty. 

zustri

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 24, 2018, 11:04:23 PM
Quote from: Tank on January 24, 2018, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: Icarus on January 24, 2018, 09:24:23 PM
Dammit !!!!   I had hoped that Zustri would do his/her first posts with something interesting or neutral. Maybe tell us that he/she is an orthopedist or a professional unicycle rider or  author of sci-fi novels, or ???    No the first thing out of the box is some religious speculation bullshit.  I had hoped for a better beginning.

:wtf:  :Gaah:

I know the feeling.

Just more of the same old-same old, isn't it?

I found this interesting article on NDEs from ScienceAlert: Near Death Experience Study Explores The Common Ground in What Is Felt And Seen

What's interesting to me is that of all the people studied who had NDEs, only 4% had a vision of any kind, meaning that 96% saw nothing at all.  Zip, nada, goose egg.  Using the standard of majority experience = truth, that would confirm that there is no afterlife of any kind and all religions featuring a god are wrong.  Not exactly what I think the OP wanted to establish.

to be fair it is around 10% of patients, I've read a lot

Sandra Craft

Quote from: zustri on January 25, 2018, 01:35:29 AM

to be fair it is around 10% of patients, I've read a lot

Do you have a link?  And even if I grant 10% on nothing more than your say-so, that leaves the vast majority seeing nothing at all, which, according to the standard of true you proposed, means no afterlife and no god.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Magdalena

Quote from: Icarus on January 24, 2018, 11:22:02 PM
^ Luv ya Sandy.  And Mags, Velma, Essie, Harmonie, Silver, Buddy, Dragonia, PC, Maria, and any of the other of you girls that I may have failed to mention.  Do not take that as to imply anything even remotely sexual.  It is all about the appreciation of the people that are so tolerant of this old man.  It ain't kool for me to say that I love the guys but I do like and respect them all, a plenty.
This is a very sweet thing to say, Icarus:hug2:

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Magdalena

#27
OK, I just had a crazy idea. I have those often.  :notsure:

Doesn't the title of this thread, Jesus vs. Muhammad, sound like a boxing match?

"Jesus El Boom-Boom del Barrio" Vs. "Mohammad Ali-Ali Stings Like A Bee"





What, too sacrilegious?  :-\

So sue me.  >:(

Edit: Corrected spelling. I wrote: "El Boob-Boom" I meant to say: "El Boom-Boom del Barrio."  :snicker:

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

No one

That is sure to be a monumentally historic event. Mary's little lamb against Pumba. I also hear that Tom will be taking on Jerry, as well as Wile. E. Coyote and The Roadrunner.

Now, will Jesus use his "special abilities"? Will he feel guilty for cheating? Will it be his cross to bear?

Dragonia

Quote from: Icarus on January 24, 2018, 11:22:02 PM
^ Luv ya Sandy.  And Mags, Velma, Essie, Harmonie, Silver, Buddy, Dragonia, PC, Maria, and any of the other of you girls that I may have failed to mention.  Do not take that as to imply anything even remotely sexual.  It is all about the appreciation of the people that are so tolerant of this old man.  It ain't kool for me to say that I love the guys but I do like and respect them all, a plenty.

:hug2: :cheerful dance 2:
You're so sweet Icarus. It's good to be loved.

To the topic, as has been hinted at here, maybe the reason people don't see Mohammed in their NDEs is that to Muslims, Muhammad is dead. After some searching, it looks like Muslims, of course, believe that Muhammad was a great prophet, but it doesn't look like they pray to Mohammed or in any way think that he is alive and involved in anything anymore.  So they aren't expecting to be welcomed into death by their prophet.  But I do know that Christians have the expectation that they will be welcomed with open arms by Jesus as soon as they die. So maybe going into a death situation with that expectation makes it happen more often.
It looks like there are shared traits specific to each religion's group, when re-telling NDEs. You would experience different things, based largely on your preconceived ideas, NOT based on the actual truth of Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, or Zeus.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)