Can the US Army embrace atheists?

[Tank]

Can the US Army embrace atheists?

In a land of faith and flag, Justin Griffith is challenging the US military to abandon its religious ties.

When he was a child growing up in Plano, Texas - a place he describes as the "oversized, goofy buckle on the Bible belt" - he would bring his bible to science class and debate his teachers on the finer points of evolution.

"In my head, I won every time," says Mr Griffith, now 29.

But somewhere along the way, his penchant for picking ideological fights with the non-religious got him in trouble. He found it harder and harder to argue with the points they were making. At 13, he suffered a crisis of faith.

"It was so painful. I lost my religion before I lost my first girlfriend. Nothing that big had ever happened to me, and I didn't have any coping skills," he says.

Mr Griffith found peace with his atheism, but he is not done sparring with the opposite team.

As an active-duty sergeant in the US Army, he's leading the charge to get atheists more respect in the armed forces. In the process he is earning attention, both positive and negative, from around the world...

A brave bloke.

[Whitney]

He was in town speaking at our FoF meeting last month on the topic of atheists in the military.  Seems like a nice, smart, young man; had a pretty good sense of humor too.

[fester30]

That's going to be a tough chore, for sure.  I don't remember where I saw the data, but more military members identify as non-religious than in the civilian sector, yet Christianity has such a huge hold in the military.  I decline to go to memorial day ceremonies, for example, because of this.  There is always a Christian invocation at these ceremonies.  I have often felt like paying a Muslim service member to roll out a rug and start praying in the middle of the ceremony, wondering how they would handle that.  When I express my opinion in the workplace, coworkers say, "If you're atheist, then it shouldn't matter to you.  You can just show respect by standing silently."  Of course, I have trouble showing respect to something I don't actually respect.  I point out that it isn't about me, that it doesn't matter to me personally that much.  However, there are a lot of Jews, Muslims, Pagans, etc., who have died for this country, and to me it seems a bit of a slap in the face to pray over their dead with a Christian prayer only.

[Mocha Chief]

Good to hear

[The Magic Pudding]

he would bring his bible to science class and debate his teachers on the finer points of evolution.

"In my head, I won every time," says Mr Griffith, now 29.

That's funny. 

[Sweetdeath]

I'm sure the lot of religious bafoons in the army probably think they are doing "god's work."
I can just imagine the groaning in that board room "first we accepted homosexuals and now atheists??"
*eyeroll*

[Twentythree]

I am grateful that this soldier is taking the time to try to raise military tolerance. The US is certainly teetering on the knifes edge of Christian fundamentalism. I think this is a good step in illustrating that, although faithless and godless, those of us who embrace science and reject modern god concepts are still capable of morality, altruism, patriotism, honor, courage and strength. It also gives other people of non faith an opportunity to be honest with themselves and with others about how they view their own reality. It's strange to think of the intolerance and social barricades that have been erected in the us when it comes to religion especially considering who the original settlers/conquerors of this nation were.

Now about the other gentleman, Hewett, I'm not sure I agree with him taking issues like a flag to the city council. This is a vast and counterproductive use of resources. I live in San Diego California and here we have a monument on Mt. Soledad. It is a cross about 30 feet high and along the base are honorary plaques honoring war veterans. We have a group of atheists who have been fighting to have this cross removed. A cross that has been standing since 1913. An atheist group has spent the better part of 20 years fighting to have this cross removed. I am an atheist but have found no common ground with this effort. This cross is a symbolic monument not only of faith and military but of our countries history. If we start going down a path where we require religious symbolism to be struck from all previously constructed monuments where does it end. Do we start to crumple the Pantheon in Rome and the Parthenon in Greece, do we crumble thy ancient pyramids of Tenochtitlan or any other religious symbolism that has been etcher or printed in human kinds history. At what point does a monument become less of a religious symbol and more of a historic symbol. In my opinion these particular atheists should stop this ridiculous battle over a monument and focus on awareness projects or looking at construction and building plans for future monuments/memorials and ensuring that religious neutrality exists in those prior to them being erected. Not only is this a useless battle as it basically accomplishes nothing it also sets back the atheistic cause because it appears as thought this fight is directly aimed at harming the Christian community along with all those whose family are remembered at the monument, along with those who have been raised in the area and have come to know the monument as part of their landscape a natural piece of their environment.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jan/24/move-protect-mt-soledad-cross-advances/

[Whitney]

I'm also against protesting and calling for the removal of religious symbols incorporated into existing monuments that are old enough to qualify for the national historic registry (ie 50 years or older).  Right or wrong, they are part of the historic record and dismantling them destroys a part of that record.  It's much more appropriate and effective to focus on new monuments and government buildings which are trying to illegally incorporate religious symbols....all the better if they team up with Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, liberal christian, etc groups when protesting these projects.

[Sweetdeath]

How about stop building useless monuments and start building more community centers or low income housing? You know, stuff that helps the LIVING.

Pagans lament so much on the dead and forget that life goes on, with or without a piece of slab to worship.

[ThinkAnarchy]

I have never understood why atheists or humanists would want to join the military. Unless a foreign army is invading, I don't see the morality in joining. I don't see the humanity in traveling to other nations to destroy their homes, businesses, lives, and often times killing them... Preferably from a bunker within the U.S. while piloting an unmanned drone. We (U.S.) rape and murder innocents simply because the politicians need a war to get re-elected.

At least christians can say they are fighting a holy war... Granted, I have a hard time relating to this topic. But why not argue for the end of a standing army, rather than arguing all state sanctioned murders should be treated equally? The U.S. hasn't fought a just war since (arguably) WWII.

[Firebird]

But why not argue for the end of a standing army, rather than arguing all state sanctioned murders should be treated equally?

I wish that was practical. But let's say we take down our army. What happens next? China flexes its muscles and starts forcing itself on other countries in the Asia-Pacific region. Russia probably invades some countries in its old soviet bloc. We do still need an army in some shape or form to defend ourselves and other democratic countries around the world.
That being said, our army has been exploited, sadly, and it and the CIA have done some horrible things at times. And while I'm not against every war, I am against most wars that we have fought, particularly Iraq. Our army should be used wisely and sparingly, and it has not always been the case.

[Stevil]

But why not argue for the end of a standing army, rather than arguing all state sanctioned murders should be treated equally?

I wish that was practical. But let's say we take down our army. What happens next? China flexes its muscles and starts forcing itself on other countries in the Asia-Pacific region. Russia probably invades some countries in its old soviet bloc. We do still need an army in some shape or form to defend ourselves and other democratic countries around the world.

USA are not the international defenders of the free world.
They broke off their ANZUS agreement because NZ choose to be nuclear free which meant no nuclear powered ships where to enter NZ waters.
But even with ANZUS agreement USA were never going to simply be NZ's defence force.

USA primarily fight for USA interests. Which is fair enough. They mostly fight for oil and money, which is questionable.

[ThinkAnarchy]

I wish that was practical. But let's say we take down our army. What happens next? China flexes its muscles and starts forcing itself on other countries in the Asia-Pacific region. Russia probably invades some countries in its old soviet bloc. We do still need an army in some shape or form to defend ourselves and other democratic countries around the world.
That being said, our army has been exploited, sadly, and it and the CIA have done some horrible things at times. And while I'm not against every war, I am against most wars that we have fought, particularly Iraq. Our army should be used wisely and sparingly, and it has not always been the case.

I don't think the U.S. should be policing the world. I'm all for giving the nations we have been protecting time to build up their own military defenses before pulling out. The reason the rest of the world hates the U.S. is precisely due to our interventionism. We still need an army or militia, but we don't need a standing army in peace times. Unfortunately this country has averaged a major war every 20 years since it's founding and peace isn't something those with power are good at.

They don't need nearly a thousand bases around the world to protect American soil.

The only part of your statement I have a problem with is the view we need to protect the rest of the world. I disagree.

[ThinkAnarchy]

USA primarily fight for USA interests. Which is fair enough. They mostly fight for oil and money, which is questionable.

And reelections and wars of public opinion. I won't be surprised if Obama starts a war with Iran prior to the election season. A large "just" war would likely solidify his reelection. The propaganda machine was in overdrive less than a month ago. I have been on one of my boycotts of national and world news lately though, so I'm not sure if the U.S. has calmed down or if they are still reporting on how evil and scary those Iranians are.

I have also noticed a lot of the anti-war sites have been pumping out a lot of pro-Iranian propaganda as well, which makes me think they are a bit worried about a new war as well.

I got a little off topic there. I typically can't help rambling a little bit though.

[Recusant]

I have never understood why atheists or humanists would want to join the military.

I think that (at least in the US) one of the more powerful reasons is education. The cost of college has been outpacing inflation for at least two decades now, and the ROTC program can make all the difference. As well, patriotism and love of country is not necessarily tied to religious belief.