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Happy Atheists, I need help being happy with death

Started by Im_Freaking_OUT, December 25, 2010, 01:10:06 PM

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Im_Freaking_OUT

I don't know where to post this, I'm looking for some calming opinions and words so I figured philosophy is the best bet. A lot of forums can get touchy about posts not being in the correct section, so I apologise if this isn't in the section you would prefer it to be in (if any).

Erm, well, I'm 21 years old, I was born November 29th, so I have been 21 for a little less than a month.

I'm an Agnostic, I have declared myself a Christian when I was a kid, and then after I declared myself an Atheist in my teens, but since my late teens I pretty much felt like an Agnostic, I personally don't know if there is a god or not, the only things that I'm pretty sure about, are:
1, That this god is nothing that we know about.
2, And that an after life is completely inconceivable.

I think I will be blunt, the thought of death freaks me out, and has given me many a sleepless night over the past two months.
The thought of myself not existing in 5 billion years from now, whatever becomes of the earth and the human race, the thought of me not existing whilst whatever is going on freaks me out, and the concept of eternity scares me too.
I know death is natural, and our only certainty, and I know you can't experience death, because I think the mind dies with the body, but at the same time, its knowing that I will one day be like that is what freaks me out, and knowing that there is an eternity afterwards which is what freaks me out a lot, I believe its called "Apeirophobia" (fear of eternity, not of death).

I'm not looking for sympathy or looking for everybody to be nice to me and treat me like some kid who is sensitive or anything, and if I come across that way then I apologise because that's not what I am trying to do, I'm just trying to explain why I am freaked out by death
I posted something similar to this, probably a shorter version, on Yahoo! Answers, and I got treat with a lot of hostility, when I was just looking for peoples opinions and philosophy about death, and how so many Atheists and Agnostics death with that thought of death, and how it doesn't bother them.
Because, to me it seems like a bad fate, to be in oblivion, and its like being a Christian and knowing you will go to hell, and you can get on with your life, but its always at the back of my mind, telling me that I will one day die and its all over, and it puts this weird feeling in my stomach, and scares me to be honest, and its always in my mind, so as long as I never stop doing something that takes my mind off it, which is too expensive, then I will always be laying there in bed every night, staring at the ceiling, with my stomach churning over something that can happen at any time, and will happen at some point in my life, and it will be the end.
I have told myself there is nothing I can do about and and I should just live my life and enjoy, but it still wont go away, I have spoken to councillors and they tell me the same thing, they are no more qualified to help me than anybody.

I thought I would try this place because, by the title of the place I assume that this place has a pretty positive vibe and might be able to just say something that I can learn from and realize that might make me chill out a bit when it comes to death.
I know a lot of Atheists are comfortable with their fate, and  was wandering what makes you some comfortable, and what you can tell me, if anything that might change my world view, and might help me forget about death, or make me accept it?
I just want to go back to normal again, before this all started a few months ago, I just don't want to live with this fear that lurks on my shoulder like it has been doing since late September.

Thanks, if you think that something I wrote was wrong, or if there is anything here that you feel the need to confront me over, please don't just mention it and I will explain once I am less tired tomorrow morning.

Thanks again.

Asmodean

#1
Why do you want to be happy with death..? Or even be ok with it..?

Granted, if you know you have a week left (for example), being ok with death is a plus. However, when you do not know how and when it will happen, why dwell on it..? Making life all about death is something religious people and certain other "spiritualists" tend to do. Death is an inevitable result of life, it is not the meaning nor purpose of it. those [philosophically and to a certain degree biologically] are yours to define for yourself.

I can see how the thought of not existing can be sad... You know, in a million years, when even my dust has turned to dust... What things will I never see..? What wonders of technology..? How many friends will I never make..? Those questions are hypothetical and the answers are utterly speculative. It may be that an immortal me would fuck up his life so badly after but 50 years that he'd forsake the immortality for a suicide at the age of 55 just as easily (and more so) than the other way.

There are far worse things than death right here in life; subjectively, of course, but I stand by that statement... So my advice: find something better to dwell on  :P
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

joeactor

Hello IFO...

I think it's understandable that people fear death. (or at the very least the dying and/or suffering part).
The question is, does this fear prevent you from enjoying life?

If you don't mind my asking, is there some recent event or loss that has increased your fear?

Welcome to the forum - I hope you find some comfort, and maybe answers here,
JoeActor

Inevitable Droid

You weren't here before and you won't be here later - so be here now.  That's all I can offer.  Be here now.  Be.  Be who you are.  Be what you stand for.  Be what you want to be.  Be brave.  Be wise.  Be alive.  Be happy.  Be here now.  Be.
Oppose Abraham.

[Missing image]

In the face of mystery, do science, not theology.

Wilson

Freaking, fear of death is coded in our DNA.  It isn't something you can talk yourself out of.  Without fear of death, we would take too many chances, and the species would probably die out.

All I can tell you is that for most of us, the fear diminishes over time.  Atheists and agnostics have one advantage in that we don't have to worry about whether we'll have eternal life or eternal damnation.  While for some people religion is a comfort in this area while we are healthy, as the end approaches, doubt must creep in, because the idea of ascending into heaven must seem like pie in the sky when you are faced with death and are forced to seriously think about it.  I'll bet that the terror at that point is a lot worse for most believers.

So just accept that death is scary but in your case a long time off and hardly worth worrying about at this point.

Ihateyoumike

Life is a game that nobody wins. So just play and have fun.
Prayers that need no answer now, cause I'm tired of who I am
You were my greatest mistake, I fell in love with your sin
Your littlest sin.

Im_Freaking_OUT

Quote from: "Asmodean"Why do you want to be happy with death..? Or even be ok with it..?

Before it never used to bother me for some reason, I had an attitude of "I would rather die having fun at 18, than die at 80 being bored", and that was my philosophy.
I am going through the mother of all quarter life crises right now (Quarter of my life is gone already?) and I just don't want to care any more.
Its one thing knowing I'm going to die, when I had my DGAF attitude about it, it never really bothered me because even though I kinda liked life, at the same time I wasn't really bothered about myself, but now I am.
Not to mention I actually went through a suicidal patch last year.

I just want to be able to sleep properly again, I just want to be able to watch a film and see a person die without thinking "he is dead, and I will be one day, blah.." I just want to be able to chill out and relax without thinking about death.
I'm 21 and I'm a loser man, and I just want to relax and be happy, for the past two months my own mind has been irritating me!!!
ITS DRIVING ME INSANE!! I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO BLOCK THE FEAR OUT AND BE HAPPY!

If I'm okay with death, then I can relax, I can feel like less of a loser, I can feel happy, I can feel sleepy again, I can do the things I enjoy without being reminded of death and being able to actually enjoy them again.
Like earlier today, I can watch the film "Scrooged" at xmas with my family and not have to walk out of the room during the death scene, I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO THE WAY THINGS WERE!!!

Quote from: "Asmodean"Granted, if you know you have a week left (for example), being ok with death is a plus. However, when you do not know how and when it will happen, why dwell on it..? Making life all about death is something religious people and certain other "spiritualists" tend to do. Death is an inevitable result of life, it is not the meaning nor purpose of it. those [philosophically and to a certain degree biologically] are yours to define for yourself.

Its probably because I'm 21, and I'm a total failure at life, like I screwed up my one shot.

Another thing is is because I was 19 for most of last year (Born Nov 29th, 1989, practically 1990), and I feel like its speeding a head of me.
I'm just constantly reminded of my mortality, and worst of all the mortality of my loved ones, and how we will all one day be watching each other die, watching my parents die, watching my sisters and my cousins die, and knowing that I will and it just scares me and makes me depressed to know that it will happen one day.

I feel like that a part of me is literally dead now, like pre-20's me is dead and gone for all eternity, and all that is left is me with the memories of his life, because its such a huge change that has happened over the past year, that I find it hard to believe that I was once that person, but I was his best friend who fully remembers his life, and its all gone.
Memories don't mean anything, they never will, and that's another thing that bothers me.

I'm already 21?, that's less than 10 years before I'm 30, and people who are 30+ are treat like crap because of their age.

Quote from: "joeactor"Hello IFO...

Hello.  :)

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"You weren't here before and you won't be here later - so be here now.  That's all I can offer.  Be here now.  Be.  Be who you are.  Be what you stand for.  Be what you want to be.  Be brave.  Be wise.  Be alive.  Be happy.  Be here now.  Be.

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Life is a game that nobody wins. So just play and have fun.

I used to be, and I have tried giving myself these speeches a lot over the past couple of months, but they only work for a bit, I have been working on a mantra with them.

Quote from: "Wilson"Freaking, fear of death is coded in our DNA.  It isn't something you can talk yourself out of.  Without fear of death, we would take too many chances, and the species would probably die out.

But I'm probably an hour away from a nervous break down.

Stevil

We all have one foot in the grave from the moment we are born. You need to live life until the moment you die, there is no choice in that. You will die, no doubts about it, I will too for that matter. You certainly don't need to worry as death is inevitable, it will just naturally happen regardless so why worry. Once you are dead you won't even know you are dead. Its the stuff between birth and death that is important, make the most of the cards that are dealt to you and put yourself in the driver's seat. Many, many people have made life changes during their life so it seems that it is never too late to change or reinvent yourself. You don't have unconstrained free will but you do have enough free reign to change and improve your life. Noticing that there is a problem is certainly the first step, actually it makes it impossible to remain constant. Just don't take on a victim mentality and instead put yourself in the drivers seat. Anyway, this is all vague, take whatever you want, disgard whatever you want. Good luck and best wishes.

Velma

It sounds like you are also freaking out because of your age.  You are only 21, you have plenty of time to start over numerous times.  I'm 47 and a half and recently started over yet again (moved, married, returned to school).  You don't just get one chance in life, you get several, but you usually have to make them yourself.
Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.~Carl Sagan

dloubet

Don't be freaked out, be angry.

Death is nothing but a waste. A waste of knowledge, a waste of personality, a waste of something unique. Hate it.

So what if it's natural. Flesh eating bacteria is natural but you don't see me pining for it. Screw natural.

Unnatural is where it's at. Unnatural is cars to get you where you're going, cell phones to talk to whoever you want, televisions to entertain you, medicine to give you a good chance at more than 30 measly years. Unnatural is what makes things convenient and extends our lifetime.

For all I know, you may not have to worry about dying. Maybe it's your generation that lives to see medical technology grasp immortality by the throat and shake it until its teeth rattle.

I hope so. I hope I can see that.

The Magic Pudding

I can't say I feel angry about it, just a bit sad I don't get to see how the story rolls out.
Angry is  better than a debilitating freak out though.

Dylan Thomas
QuoteDo not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

If someone had a fear of dogs, a gradual introduction to friendly dogs may help.
I wonder if activities which entail a bit of risk, but intensify life would help.  
Things that don't threaten others like bike riding, surfing, rock fishing, a challenging walk or kayaking.
Are drugs contributing to the problem?

JohnCR

I guess I'm not really sure what exactly it is about death that scares you. If you are frustrated by the fact that we can't see what becomes of humanity, then join the club. However, I'm not sure I want to know considering how self-destructive our society is right now. As long as I die before some sort of Apocalypse occurs, I can afford to be optimistic about it. Plus, I find it comforting to see the possible scenarios that are played out in movies and television (my favorite scenario being the peaceful and morally upright Earth from Star Trek).

I don't waste my time dreading the pain of death because I know that I can just end it quickly if necessary (I'm sure euthanasia will be completely legal by the time I am old). I also don't really have to worry about what it will be like after death because my consciousness will no longer exist and I won't have anything to think/feel about it.

I don't worry about leaving a legacy because I know I will almost certainly not be remembered after a mere 100 years anyway.

I do agree that it's a real bummer that loved ones will eventually die, but I would take comfort in the likelihood that any children you have will be with you until you die. Children would still be people that you've known for a very long time, so it is very unlikely that you will be without someone close to you once some of your loved ones die.

I'm trying not to touch on anything cliché, because I know personally that reciting a bunch of cliché reassurances just makes a person feel worse. Clichés aren't really helpful either considering the person asking probably has heard them before and didn't find what they were looking for in them.

Asmodean

Quote from: "Im_Freaking_OUT"Its probably because I'm 21, and I'm a total failure at life, like I screwed up my one shot.
Welcome to the club!  :pop:

Take it from someone who has spent a few more years wasting his life than you: there will be other "shots". You will find yourself on other crossroads, in different circumstances and foreign places... And on some you will take paths you will come to realize were wrong. When you do realize that, there are three major ways of dealing with it: continue on the wrong path (possibly attempt to make it right or to get used to it), try to turn tables (or yourself) OR do nothing and drift with the current.

Your "one shot" is only your last if you choose to drift with the current, and that choice is reversible.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Wilson

Freak, it sounds to me like you are pretty depressed, and probably not just about death.  It might be a good idea to see a mental health professional.

Event_Horizon

"I think I will be blunt, the thought of death freaks me out, and has given me many a sleepless night over the past two months.
The thought of myself not existing in 5 billion years from now, whatever becomes of the earth and the human race, the thought of me not existing whilst whatever is going on freaks me out, and the concept of eternity scares me too."

Don't worry about it. You cannot experience non-existence. So when you die, you will not exist, and you won't feel two ways about it. That idea takes some time to get used to, if you feel so inclined to accept it. That is just my own view. If there is an existence beyond death, then great, if there isn't, then whatever. I can't feel bad about it because my limbic system will decay with my body. My prefrontal cortex will shrivel and die. The only thing that actually keeps working after death, at least for a time, is the eardrum, since it's all mechanical (the more you know).

Many better and smarter people have said something similar to this much more eloquently (but here it goes): I didn't exist for 14 billion years before I was born, and it didn't bother me one bit. Also, when you die, it is not you who will disappear, it is the world that will fade away.

What seems to drive your fears isn't what happens after the curtain closes, but the finality of it all. For that I don't really have much advice. Right now I'm in a rough spot (crap job, no money, a future that's unclear), but many others are facing that too. What I do to keep my sanity is to have some purpose, a hobby, a skill that I try to master even if it's superficially for my own amusement. For me, I write. You could try the same if you wish. Maybe try music, drawing, art, something to take your mind off your stress, to destress you, and to give you both something to look back on, and to look forward to.

“Its probably because I'm 21, and I'm a total failure at life, like I screwed up my one shot.”

You’re not a failure. You may have failed a few times, I sure have (and I’m still failing), but mistakes you learn from aren’t really big mistakes at all. You'll get many shots, many chances. I'm 23 and I feel that my life has a long way to go. There are so many goals I want to achieve, and slowly I work towards them, even if it's only baby steps.

This fear of death might actually be the "symptom" and not the "disease". Perhaps you have deeper fears and stresses? In time they should go away, and coping strategies could greatly help you. And don't be ashamed to see a counselor or something, not on this fear of death, but your current life stresses too. I was a psychology major a few years ago (I have a bachelor's in it, nothing clinical though), I saw counselors before when my life was rough. In time it all goes away. In the end, it gets better, if it isn't better, it's not the end.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave