Nova! -the end of black hole/singularity fantasy:

[Davin]

I don't think it mentioned the fact Halton Arp studied many more of these "anomalous" galaxies.    They all have a curious trait in common: there are multiple quasars in those structures, and those quasars all have differing red-shift values.

What do you think this means? Because I think it means that red-shift values represent relative velocities and that you have either misunderstood the data or are misrepresenting it. Not much of a middle ground I'm afraid.

^that's impeccable science, actually.

Do you think that science is merely saying sciency sounding things? Because that is not science.

Oh, you poor thing, having what you present publicly getting publicly challenged. To my defense, I have been trying to take it easy on you. Notice that I refrain from personal attacks. Also, if you read back through our conversations, I never mentioned "darkwhateverthefucks" in any way.

Though I still hold that if the universe were made up of 99.999+% plasma, then we wouldn't be able to see far, let alone make any kind of astronomical observations.

It only sounds like gibberish because you've failed to make the connections they imply.

No, it sounds like gibberish because it is.

Yes, red-shifts represent relative velocity...   Which is represented in theory as "Hubble Law"   It establishes a direct correlation between velocity and its distance from us.

Why would you not expect different points in the same galaxy to have varying values of red shift?

Playing with the math associated with this is what gives humanity the impression we live in an expanding universe.   but it neglects gravitational contribution, which observation shows to exist, so it's invalid...   but it does, infact, apply to the situation, and that's how.

Here's a modern science paper that discusses something called "gravitational red shift:"
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.3.439

They have been accounting for gravitational effects on red shift since at least 1959.

Publicly challenged?    i have yet to see a challenge.

Sure... sure.

Cant see through plasma huh?    reading one line out of wikipedia does not constitute understanding.   yes, light has issues transmuting through plasma, but again you have issues with placing that bit if info in proper context with other physical realities, like the density distribution of the universe.   There is so much wrong with that line of reasoning it's not even funny.   To an astute observer, your contribution is in no way reminiscent of a sensical scientific discussion.

What are you talking about with "density distribution?" Do you mean that there is space between plasma? I wonder how much of the universe could possibly be space between plasma when plasma makes up 99.999+% of the universe. If the universe were made up of 99.999+% of plasma, it would be dense with plasma. I suppose it could if in your generous allotment of < 0.001% of the universe, however that doesn't give plasma enough room to be seen through.

Here is a glass orb with a ball of plasma inside it:

How much of the "universe" inside that orb would you say the plasma takes up?

[Dave]

Some nice images of cosmic plasma.







https://www.thoughtco.com/lightning-and-plasma-photo-gallery-4122966

You can just about see through it but if it just about filled the universe . . .

Or is there "Dark Plasma" I wonder?

[Rift Zone]

No, it sounds like gibberish because it is.

I see someone around here who favors the employment of logical fallacies in their discussion.   They have the wrong thread.    Every step they take will be approved by mother nature or they can get the fuck out of here.   

[Davin]

No, it sounds like gibberish because it is.

I see someone around here who favors the employment of logical fallacies in their discussion.   They have the wrong thread.    Every step they take will be approved by mother nature or they can get the fuck out of here.

If I have committed logical fallacies, then point them out. I suspect though, that that is yet another baseless claim.

Care to discuss any of my objections and questions or are you ceding to me?

[Rift Zone]

No, it sounds like gibberish because it is.

I see someone around here who favors the employment of logical fallacies in their discussion.   They have the wrong thread.    Every step they take will be approved by mother nature or they can get the fuck out of here.

If I have committed logical fallacies, then point them out. I suspect though, that that is yet another baseless claim.

Care to discuss any of my objections and questions or are you ceding to me?

in scientific discourse you propose a point then support it.   I've let your hit and run approach to this slide long enough.   If you feel as though you have any ground to stand on at all, I suggest you name your ground and firmly establish why that notion thinks it has a chance of invalidating Nova.   anything less than that constitutes whining and you will be subsequently coddled.   

[Davin]

No, it sounds like gibberish because it is.

I see someone around here who favors the employment of logical fallacies in their discussion.   They have the wrong thread.    Every step they take will be approved by mother nature or they can get the fuck out of here.

If I have committed logical fallacies, then point them out. I suspect though, that that is yet another baseless claim.

Care to discuss any of my objections and questions or are you ceding to me?

in scientific discourse you propose a point then support it.

I have.

I've let your hit and run approach to this slide long enough.

Hit and run? I'm not running, I'm right here keeping things on point constantly bringing you back to the discussion every time you try to avoid.

If you feel as though you have any ground to stand on at all, I suggest you name your ground and firmly establish why that notion thinks it has a chance of invalidating Nova.

How about we start where you ceded to me:

Yes, red-shifts represent relative velocity...   Which is represented in theory as "Hubble Law"   It establishes a direct correlation between velocity and its distance from us.

Why would you not expect different points in the same galaxy to have varying values of red shift?

Playing with the math associated with this is what gives humanity the impression we live in an expanding universe.   but it neglects gravitational contribution, which observation shows to exist, so it's invalid...   but it does, infact, apply to the situation, and that's how.

Here's a modern science paper that discusses something called "gravitational red shift:"
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.3.439

They have been accounting for gravitational effects on red shift since at least 1959.

Publicly challenged?    i have yet to see a challenge.

Sure... sure.

Cant see through plasma huh?    reading one line out of wikipedia does not constitute understanding.   yes, light has issues transmuting through plasma, but again you have issues with placing that bit if info in proper context with other physical realities, like the density distribution of the universe.   There is so much wrong with that line of reasoning it's not even funny.   To an astute observer, your contribution is in no way reminiscent of a sensical scientific discussion.

What are you talking about with "density distribution?" Do you mean that there is space between plasma? I wonder how much of the universe could possibly be space between plasma when plasma makes up 99.999+% of the universe. If the universe were made up of 99.999+% of plasma, it would be dense with plasma. I suppose it could if in your generous allotment of < 0.001% of the universe, however that doesn't give plasma enough room to be seen through.

Here is a glass orb with a ball of plasma inside it:

How much of the "universe" inside that orb would you say the plasma takes up?

anything less than that constitutes whining and you will be subsequently coddled.

Coddled? Oh no, being coddled sounds sooooooo bad.


Please, no coddling. Do anything else you want, but don't throw me into the coddle patch!

[Rift Zone]

your point is?   the support is?    kindly don't waste my time with insipid trains of thought that lack scientific rigor, i get enough of that elsewhere.

[Davin]

your point is?   the support is?    kindly don't waste my time with insipid trains of thought that lack scientific rigor, i get enough of that elsewhere.

Very well, I accept that you are ceding to me.

[Rift Zone]

Very well, I accept that you are ceding to me.

Come on back the next time you feel like getting played!  I'd be happy to oblige you again.

[Davin]

Very well, I accept that you are ceding to me.

Come on back the next time you feel like getting played!  I'd be happy to oblige you again.

If I can manage to see through all this plasma that is taking up 99.999+% of the universe. If only the universe had more than <0.001% for the plasma to be sparse enough to see my keyboard.

They were good times though. Hey, remember that time you were all like, "it neglects gravitational contribution, which observation shows to exist," and I showed you a scientific paper that showed that we had been accounting for gravitational effects on red shift since 1959? Hilarious. Those were good times.

I wish you could have answered my question about, why would you not expect different points in the same galaxy to have varying values of red shift, but I guess I'll just have to live with you cowering away from that question.

[Rift Zone]

Very well, I accept that you are ceding to me.

Come on back the next time you feel like getting played!  I'd be happy to oblige you again.

If I can manage to see through all this plasma that is taking up 99.999+% of the universe. If only the universe had more than <0.001% for the plasma to be sparse enough to see my keyboard.

They were good times though. Hey, remember that time you were all like, "it neglects gravitational contribution, which observation shows to exist," and I showed you a scientific paper that showed that we had been accounting for gravitational effects on red shift since 1959? Hilarious. Those were good times.

I wish you could have answered my question about, why would you not expect different points in the same galaxy to have varying values of red shift, but I guess I'll just have to live with you cowering away from that question.

i neglected to see a point or anything that supports anything reminiscent of a point.   Subsequently, your drivel constitutes nothing and can be discounted with a similar ease in which it was created.

[Davin]

i neglected to see a point or anything that supports anything reminiscent of a point.   Subsequently, your drivel constitutes nothing and can be discounted with a similar ease in which it was created.

You shouldn't neglect to see points if you want to have honest discussions.

But hey, you do and say whatever it is you have to say to make yourself feel better about the rubbish you presented.

[Rift Zone]

Anyone wiht more than juvenile argumentation skills, and scientific knowledge, would have been able to see how lame your argument was all along.   Throwing out some half formed notion is a waste of time of grown ups who want to talk science.   

Fire is plasma, you can see through that. 

you challenge 99.999+ is not plasma? then what is the rest of it?  do you see the precarious position your position is in?  aspire for greater than 3rd grade scientific discourse.

[Rift Zone]

my science cannot be broken.  anything you think you have only demonstrates your ignorance.   

[Davin]

Anyone wiht more than juvenile argumentation skills, and scientific knowledge, would have been able to see how lame your argument was all along.   Throwing out some half formed notion is a waste of time of grown ups who want to talk science.

I'm juvenile now? Maybe you should spend less time trying to attack me and more time trying to answer my questions and objections.

Fire is plasma, you can see through that.

As long as it's small/thin. But if a room is 99.999+% fire, then no one could see through the room.

you challenge 99.999+ is not plasma? then what is the rest of it?  do you see the precarious position your position is in?  aspire for greater than 3rd grade scientific discourse.

I challenge that the universe could not be made up of 99.999+% of plasma because we wouldn't be able to see very far in the least, because there would be no free space for light to get through. Considering that plasma is very hot, so another problem is that we'd all be cooked.

my science cannot be broken.  anything you think you have only demonstrates your ignorance.   

That's not very open minded of you. Self aggrandizement: because no one else will.