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I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?

Started by MatureMcLeod, January 11, 2017, 12:25:59 AM

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Arturo

Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 08:42:40 AM
QuoteAn example of evolution: we didn't always have cars, phones, grocery stores with easily accessible food. Over time these things came to existence and improved our lives.

Now, hold it right there, Arturo! Access to food I wiil concede. Not to sure of the efficaciousbess of the other two...

It's the human brain that was able to design such things that evolved to be pedantic. But our Cro msgnon were probably as intelligent as us - we have the advsntage of a few 100k years if accumulated knowledge. But that also needed developing a reliable means of storing and passing on that knowledge, speech, graphics and writing. All the rest is just added frippery.

Trouble is we just had to invent, or imagine rather, the concept of the suoernatural in our early ignorance.

I'm not sure what your point is.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Arturo

Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 09:08:15 AM
It has just occurred to me: the people that life is most meaningless to (apart from those unfortunate enough to be mentally ill) myst be the likes id our fellow member, Dredge.

Us atheists are, mostly, happily enjoying the one life that we have - raising kids, discovering new things, doing all kinds of good stuff because it needs doing or gives us pleasure.

The Drudges Dredges of this world have to survive this materialstic existence and have to suffer and/or do good things just to earn enough points to get to their imaginary "life after death". No altruism there then...

Poor sods.

I agree. Life as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules. We just doo things.

We've had this discussion before, I believe.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dave

Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 08:42:40 AM
QuoteAn example of evolution: we didn't always have cars, phones, grocery stores with easily accessible food. Over time these things came to existence and improved our lives.

Now, hold it right there, Arturo! Access to food I wiil concede. Not to sure of the efficaciousbess of the other two...

It's the human brain that was able to design such things that evolved to be pedantic. But our Cro msgnon were probably as intelligent as us - we have the advsntage of a few 100k years if accumulated knowledge. But that also needed developing a reliable means of storing and passing on that knowledge, speech, graphics and writing. All the rest is just added frippery.

Trouble is we just had to invent, or imagine rather, the concept of the suoernatural in our early ignorance.

I'm not sure what your point is.

I should have put a smiley and a wink in there! :)

Trying to be funny, modern tech can be as much a curse as a boon at times - 'swhy I have all but my landline switched to "Do not disturb" at nights. Those whom I care about know to use the landline for emergencies - got too many wrong numbers, ad texts and emails at night on the cell phone and tablet. Cars can be a bloody nuisance as well sometines.

But, we accumulated knowledge over the millennia, could say the first concept vehicle was a rolling log! We merely improved somewhat on the idea...  But, in our search for understanding, we had to bloody go and invent gods and devils, bad idea! Leads to Dredges et al.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Arturo

Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 08:42:40 AM
QuoteAn example of evolution: we didn't always have cars, phones, grocery stores with easily accessible food. Over time these things came to existence and improved our lives.

Now, hold it right there, Arturo! Access to food I wiil concede. Not to sure of the efficaciousbess of the other two...

It's the human brain that was able to design such things that evolved to be pedantic. But our Cro msgnon were probably as intelligent as us - we have the advsntage of a few 100k years if accumulated knowledge. But that also needed developing a reliable means of storing and passing on that knowledge, speech, graphics and writing. All the rest is just added frippery.

Trouble is we just had to invent, or imagine rather, the concept of the suoernatural in our early ignorance.

I'm not sure what your point is.

I should have put a smiley and a wink in there! :)

Trying to be funny, modern tech can be as much a curse as a boon at times - 'swhy I have all but my landline switched to "Do not disturb" at nights. Those whom I care about know to use the landline for emergencies - got too many wrong numbers, ad texts and emails at night on the cell phone and tablet. Cars can be a bloody nuisance as well sometines.

But, we accumulated knowledge over the millennia, could say the first concept vehicle was a rolling log! We merely improved somewhat on the idea...  But, in our search for understanding, we had to bloody go and invent gods and devils, bad idea! Leads to Dredges et al.

Well isn't that what evolution is? Improvement? You can say we are an accumulation of animals and we were just the cherry on top.

As for technology, humans aren't perfect either. We invented the technology we complain about. But it improves our lives. We just take it for granted and don't appreciate the quality of life we have now. 10 years ago I couldn't look up some factual information without getting on the computer at the library. Now I can do it from my toilet.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dave

Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 08:42:40 AM
QuoteAn example of evolution: we didn't always have cars, phones, grocery stores with easily accessible food. Over time these things came to existence and improved our lives.

Now, hold it right there, Arturo! Access to food I wiil concede. Not to sure of the efficaciousbess of the other two...

It's the human brain that was able to design such things that evolved to be pedantic. But our Cro msgnon were probably as intelligent as us - we have the advsntage of a few 100k years if accumulated knowledge. But that also needed developing a reliable means of storing and passing on that knowledge, speech, graphics and writing. All the rest is just added frippery.

Trouble is we just had to invent, or imagine rather, the concept of the suoernatural in our early ignorance.

I'm not sure what your point is.

I should have put a smiley and a wink in there! :)

Trying to be funny, modern tech can be as much a curse as a boon at times - 'swhy I have all but my landline switched to "Do not disturb" at nights. Those whom I care about know to use the landline for emergencies - got too many wrong numbers, ad texts and emails at night on the cell phone and tablet. Cars can be a bloody nuisance as well sometines.

But, we accumulated knowledge over the millennia, could say the first concept vehicle was a rolling log! We merely improved somewhat on the idea...  But, in our search for understanding, we had to bloody go and invent gods and devils, bad idea! Leads to Dredges et al.

Well isn't that what evolution is? Improvement? You can say we are an accumulation of animals and we were just the cherry on top.

As for technology, humans aren't perfect either. We invented the technology we complain about. But it improves our lives. We just take it for granted and don't appreciate the quality of life we have now. 10 years ago I couldn't look up some factual information without getting on the computer at the library. Now I can do it from my toilet.

Looks like I should have made it even clearer that I was trying to be funny.

Every advance in technoligy has some kind of disadvantage if you look deep enough. Fire is a life saver and a life destroyer, computers enable us to do ever more complex things far faster every year - until they go wrong and there is no back-up and people lose fortunes or even die.

Increaded dependancy = increased risk. There will still probably be furry animals to take hides from when the last polyester factory has failed. Unless we kill them all off with global warming and the human survivors have to constantly migrate to maintain life in a temporate clime of course. (Deliberate choice of worst possible case scenario as black humour  :)  )
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Arturo

Yes that was exactly my point. Only I was looking at it from a glass half full position.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dredge

Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:09:23 PMLife as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 09:08:15 AM
It has just occurred to me: the people that life is most meaningless to (apart from those unfortunate enough to be mentally ill) myst be the likes id our fellow member, Dredge.

Us atheists are, mostly, happily enjoying the one life that we have - raising kids, discovering new things, doing all kinds of good stuff because it needs doing or gives us pleasure.

The Drudges Dredges of this world have to survive this materialstic existence and have to suffer and/or do good things just to earn enough points to get to their imaginary "life after death". No altruism there then...

Poor sods.
I think living a life that adds up to and leads to something far greater makes a lot more sense than living a life that adds up to and leads to nothing. 
"We're on a road to nowhere" - Talking Heads, singing the Atheists'  Anthem.

Anyone who is happy with just this life is pretty easily pleased, I must say.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Magdalena

Quote from: Dredge on March 27, 2017, 05:15:02 AM
Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:09:23 PMLife as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Dredge

Quote from: Tank on March 25, 2017, 03:51:03 PMWe evolved that way. We are social creatures. For complex social creatures like humans, as opposed to social insects, empathy is a necessary quality for survival. Sharks are not social creatures. They do not require an empathic response to their own kind.
Human being supposedly evolved to be highly social creatures with empathy and a whole host of other complex thoughts, feelings and emotions - yet millions of other creatures attest to the fact that such characteristics aren't necessary for survival.   

And I wonder how some tiny little, almost-imperceivable mistake in DNA-copying could have resulted in even a tiny little, almost-imperceivable bit of empathy in the mind of some hominid that previously had none?  Then how did that tiny little, almost imperceivable bit of empathy result in a survival advantage?  
---------------------------------------------

I'm not against empathy, but why is it necessary for survival?  
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Arturo

Quote from: Dredge on March 27, 2017, 05:15:02 AM
Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:09:23 PMLife as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
Not as bad as the crusades, or God, or the kkk, or neo Nazis. To be honest, I knew you would go there. At this point, your moves on the chess board are entirely predictable because I've stolen most of your good pieces.

Also, most athiests don't murder so you are naming outliers that are widley unrepresentative of who we are as a whole. Yeah some were bad, like a really small minority, like less than 1%, but most of us agree to the same set of rules that the rest of society does. We agree killing is wrong. We agree freedom is good. We just don't need someone to tell us what to think because we find out on our own. At least I do.

A quote from scarface- "You a communist? Huh? How you like it: every day they tell you what to do, what to think, what to feel. You wanna be a sheep, like all thoae other people? Baa baa baa! You wanna work 10 fucking hours, you own nothing, you got nothing. You want a [unintelligible] looking after you, everything you do everything you say man?" Tony Montana, Al Pacino, talking about communism in Cuba. To me this sounds paranoid. Always having to worry about someone above you, who is going to punish you, and who has no consideration for your peace of mind or your paranoia they've induced by constantly spying on you. For someone to think that, they must have the same paranoia coming from above them. It's an endless regression of paranoia and monitoring that doesn't help anyone. (And for the record, this is why I'm against the usa government spying on it's own people.)
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dave

Quote from: Dredge on March 27, 2017, 05:15:02 AM
Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:09:23 PMLife as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.

Massacres in the name of a peaceful faith

Too many of them to list. And it is still going on in the hands of Islamists, for they also worship your impotent (except in the minds of humans) deity.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Arturo

Quote from: Dredge on March 27, 2017, 05:23:37 AM
Quote from: Gloucester on March 26, 2017, 09:08:15 AM
It has just occurred to me: the people that life is most meaningless to (apart from those unfortunate enough to be mentally ill) myst be the likes id our fellow member, Dredge.

Us atheists are, mostly, happily enjoying the one life that we have - raising kids, discovering new things, doing all kinds of good stuff because it needs doing or gives us pleasure.

The Drudges Dredges of this world have to survive this materialstic existence and have to suffer and/or do good things just to earn enough points to get to their imaginary "life after death". No altruism there then...

Poor sods.
I think living a life that adds up to and leads to something far greater makes a lot more sense than living a life that adds up to and leads to nothing. 
"We're on a road to nowhere" - Talking Heads, singing the Atheists'  Anthem.

Anyone who is happy with just this life is pretty easily pleased, I must say.

Being easily pleased? You better believe it. I don't need no sky daddy giving me some mystical reward after decades of shit from him and his community. I can live right now with people I like and die when I die. A life worth living is the one I can die happy.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Arturo

Quote from: Dredge on March 27, 2017, 05:44:30 AM
I'm not against empathy, but why is it necessary for survival? 
Then why are you arguing against it? Don't you know there would BE NO CHURCH without even basic empathetic responses? A wolf is strong on it's own but it can't take down a buffalo without a pack. A shark survives well on it's own because it is well adapted to do so. Humans are not. They would tear each other to pieces if they could not empathize with their counterparts. This is why wars are started, one side demonizes the other to the point of attacking them.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Arturo on March 27, 2017, 08:02:37 AM
Quote from: Dredge on March 27, 2017, 05:15:02 AM
Quote from: Arturo on March 26, 2017, 07:09:23 PMLife as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
Not as bad as the crusades, or God, or the kkk, or neo Nazis. To be honest, I knew you would go there. At this point, your moves on the chess board are entirely predictable because I've stolen most of your good pieces.


The worst was the Spanish Inquisition.  You just had to be freakin' sick to do that stuff.  Sick.