"I wish it worked for me"...

[Tanker]

It seems that many theists and atheists believe that a lack of evidence somehow proves their preferred position.

I never said it proved anything.

And nobody said you did.

I'm afraid you did actually.

Please adress my other points since they were the most pertinant.

[Typist]

I'm afraid you did actually.

Perhaps you're right.  Let's find out.

Please quote the exact text where I did this.

[Tanker]

I'm afraid you did actually.

Perhaps you're right.  Let's find out.

Please quote the exact text where I did this.

Seriously...um look at the top quote box I already had it up there.

About my other points though, how about responding.

[Typist]

Seriously...um look at the top quote box I already had it up there.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean.  Please quote the words of mine you are referring to.

[Tanker]

Ok, here again is your words I'll further emphasis it.

It seems that many theists and atheists believe that a lack of evidence somehow PROVES their preferred position.

I'm unsure if you are being delibratly obtuse or not. Regardless it seems as though you are however dilibratly not adressing my earlier points and are focusing on this miner part to not do so. Really this is far and away the least important part of my earlier post. If it will get you to actully engage the meat of my comment I'll agree your right. Hell I'll erase all previous treads on the vein of "proof" if it will get you to respond to the rest. Take issue with this if you want but reply to ALL my points if you would.

[Typist]

I never said it proved anything.

And nobody said you did.

I'm afraid you did actually.

It seems that many theists and atheists believe that a lack of evidence somehow PROVES their preferred position.

Please note the complete absence of any mention of you in this statement.

[Tanker]

No, pretending is the act of stating we have an afterlife without the slightest evidence of an afterlife.

Yes, I think you've done a good job of bringing us to the heart of all these discussions.

It seems that many theists and atheists believe that a lack of evidence somehow proves their preferred position.

By this logic, our lack of evidence of 99% of the universe before Edwin Hubble's discoveries, only 100 years ago, would have been proof that billions of galaxies beyond our own didn't exist.  Except that, um, they do, as we now know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hubble

This passion for claiming a lack of evidence as proof of one's position shows that many of us, theists and atheists, really aren't that interested in understanding the reality, but instead are focused on social positioning agendas.

Lack of evidence is proof of something though, our ignorance.

99% of the universe.  

We had no evidence of it.  

And yet, it is there.

You were replying to me. Your comment was directed at me. You did infact inply this of me.

Again you focus on the mudane and do not reply to actual crux of my post. Forget this or at least reply to my other points as well as this.

[Typist]

Yes, let's forget it, good plan.

[curiosityandthecat]

How, exactly, does faith "work?" To me, saying "I wish it worked for me" is the same as saying "I wish I could be stupid enough to keep playing three-card monte."

Sounds about right to me.  

[Cecilie]

To be honest I feel the opposite. Sometimes I'm afraid of becoming religious, getting brainwashed. I'm okay with dying someday. Heck, when I die, I won't even know that I'm dead.

[i_am_i]

How, exactly, does faith "work?"

I can provide proof that faith and prayer works, should anyone be interested.  

Still waiting for your proof.

[Typist]

Still waiting for your proof.

Whoops, sorry J, missed your earlier request.   I see it now.

Ok, here we go.  Are you ready to accept the Pink Unicorn as your personal savior?  

Sorry, seriously....

Here's the proof that faith and prayer work.

People keep doing it.

It's that's simple, once we look at it objectively, to see the facts, instead of to prove some agenda we've brought to the inquiry.

Does prayer change the weather, make us rich, heal cancer and the other publicly stated goals?   Not to my knowledge.  I can't really say.  I have no evidence of it.

Do faith and prayer meet the real goals, the unstated goals, of some people?  Does this process make them feel better, give them comfort, help them get through life etc.

For some, no.   And so they stop praying.

For others, yes.  And so they keep praying.   Billions of people, for thousands of years.

The fact that some people keep praying, shows that it is working for them, or they would stop doing it.

[i_am_i]

Here's the proof that faith and prayer work.

People keep doing it.

It's that's simple, once we look at it objectively, to see the facts, instead of to prove some agenda we've brought to the inquiry.

Does prayer change the weather, make us rich, heal cancer and the other publicly stated goals?   Not to my knowledge.  I can't really say.  I have no evidence of it.

Do faith and prayer meet the real goals, the unstated goals, of some people?  Does this process make them feel better, give them comfort, help them get through life etc.

For some, no.   And so they stop praying.

For others, yes.  And so they keep praying.   Billions of people, for thousands of years.

The fact that some people keep praying, shows that it is working for them, or they would stop doing it.

So faith works because people have faith. It's sobering to think of where science would be today if everyone shared your probing sense of logic.

[Typist]

So faith works because people have faith.

Not what I said J.    

I defined "works" in a simple practical real world way as, "achieving the real goals of the user".  

It's sobering to think of where science would be today if everyone shared your probing sense of logic.

J, how about showing your own probing sense of logic, by going easy on the vague and lazy generalized emotion driven statements, and analyzing my logic with your logic, like you know, in real science.

[i_am_i]

You said:

The fact that some people keep praying, shows that it is working for them, or they would stop doing it.

All that the fact that some people keep praying illustrates is that some people keep praying. It's illogical to then try to infer that this is any kind of proof that praying actually works for them.