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Started by silviakjell, August 03, 2006, 07:32:16 AM

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Whitney

#15
Quote from: "bmxrider724"but i find if you choose to do it, its free choice. and it makes sense that god punished them because he said, if you do this i will punish you.

For example, you place a two yr old in a room with a gun and tell him not to touch it.  Although this child knows he has been told not to touch the gun he does not understand why (that the gun is dangerous and can kill him).  Even if you happened to tell this kid that the gun can kill him most humans at that age don't really have a firm grasp on what it means to die.  I can see how someone could view the kid's choice to play with the gun anyway as being free choice (although I'd consider it a choice based more on ignorance than freedom), but not that the child deserved to be punished as the result of his choice...the above example would probably result in charges of child neglect in most civilized countries.

So, apply this to Adam and Eve...did either of them really understand the consequences of eating the apple?  When thinking of how to answer that question, ask yourself if they had understood would they have eaten in the first place...also, how is it possible to make a decision between good and evil without having the knowledge of good an evil (which they gained from the tree)?

bmxrider724

#16
i dont think that understanding the whole picture matters. what if a 20 yr old kills someone without fully understanding that they would spend their life in jail, they are still acountable.

Whitney

#17
Quote from: "bmxrider724"i dont think that understanding the whole picture matters. what if a 20 yr old kills someone without fully understanding that they would spend their life in jail, they are still acountable.

If the 20 year old was competent would he be capable of honestly not fully understanding the consequences of his actions?  Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the legal system is set up so that those who are grossly incompetent don't get life sentences...they get put in mental institutions or other types of care facilities.   Basically, as a society we understand that not everyone shares the same level of maturity or mental competence so we are set up so that those who are not able to understand what they have done are treated differently than those who made a thought out choice.

When looking at it as a society, although we may feel that those who don't share a full understanding may not be deserving of punishment, we have to set them apart from society for the safety of all citizens.  When looking at it from the perspective of God deciding to punish Adam and Eve, who clearly didn't know the difference between good and evil before eating from the tree, it seems unjust to punish them as if they could know what they were doing (they certainly didn't understand the consequences...if they had why didn't they eat from the tree of life to avoid the punishment of death from eating from the tree of knowledge?)...even more unjust to punish all of humanity due to the actions of two people.  That's like if your great great etc grandfather killed a man and all of his descendents including himself have to sit in jail for their whole life.

Big Mac

#18
They do get commited and it is really difficult to get consider mentally incompetent. They have a rigorous gauntlet of doctors, tests, and basic observations to demill anyone sane enough to insist on it. Though there are scenarios like crimes of passion. Like walking in on a spouse and your sibling which can get leniency in court if you murder them out of pure rage that was obviously not premeditated. I agree with both cases, sometimes people get pushed into special circumstances that make them do things not normal of their character.

Also the bible contradicts itself by saying we are doomed by Adam and Eve yet it later states that the sins of the Father are not the sins of the Son. In that a child will not be held accountable for their parents' actions. Then God again contradicts himself saying that anyone who blasphemises against him shall suffer up to the "10th generation". God is a funny invention, so inconsistent.
Quote from: "PoopShoot"And what if pigs shit candy?

bmxrider724

#19
and are you taking those things out of context?, clearly you are. why dont you give us referances and the whole story behind those quotes.

Whitney

#20
Which verses do you think Big Mac took out of context?  

The father's sins not being the son's is definitely in context  Ezekiel 18:20

Although I'm not sure if there is a verse in the bible that says the subsequent generations of blasphemers are punished, there is one that says the same of bastards (considering the context...deut 22 is about how to treat cases of adultery...i don't see how you can say it's out of context) Deut 23:2  A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.