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Hey Brits (And Others Who Live In Places W/Strict Gun Control)

Started by Ali, August 06, 2012, 05:42:38 PM

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Ali

So the pro-gun people in the US always argue that making guns illegal will only take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens because criminals don't care if guns are illegal.  Thereby leaving law abiding citizens to the mercy of gun wielding criminals.  My thought is that this is probably not entirely true because surely it's got to be harder for even the criminals to get guns if they don't sell them everywhere.  So just curious, for those of you that live in countries where guns are illegal or at least harder to get a hold of, what is your perspective?  Do you see a lot of law abiding citizens being terrorized by criminals with illegal guns?

Buddy

My stance on gun control is the same as buying a pet. They should be available, but the people buying should be screened, tested, and background checked. I think that making guns illegal to the general public is unfair because it punishes the law abiding citizens. I am not aposed to making them harder to get though. I went to a gun show one time because I was bored and in walking distance from my house. It was scary how easy it was for someone to just walk up to a vender, pay them, and walk away with their new prize.
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

OldGit

Handguns are totally banned in the UK, so that even our Olympic team has to train abroad, but there is still a lot of gun crime on the streets of our cities - illegal weapons, of course.  Target rifles are very strictly controlled and there is very little crime with them; of course, they are not much use to criminals.
Shotguns are less tightly controlled; they do no doubt get misused: typically a divorced man will kill his ex and kids, then himself.  AFAIK there is little ordinary crime with shotguns.

Tank

Quote from: Ali on August 06, 2012, 05:42:38 PM
So the pro-gun people in the US always argue that making guns illegal will only take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens because criminals don't care if guns are illegal.  Thereby leaving law abiding citizens to the mercy of gun wielding criminals.  My thought is that this is probably not entirely true because surely it's got to be harder for even the criminals to get guns if they don't sell them everywhere.  So just curious, for those of you that live in countries where guns are illegal or at least harder to get a hold of, what is your perspective?  Do you see a lot of law abiding citizens being terrorized by criminals with illegal guns?
Personally I think that the 'horse has bolted' as far as gun control goes in the USA. There are simply too many guns to ever realistically be taken out of circulation.

A lot of gun crime in the UK is gang on gang stuff. You very rarely hear of hand guns being used in hold ups or the like. The weapon of choice for bank robbers is the sawn off shotgun and that can still be obtained if a gun owner's house is targeted.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

DeterminedJuliet

Honestly, I know next to nothing about the gun laws in Canada, though I think most guns have to be registered here . Owning guns as a hobby is practically non-existent as far as I have ever seen -- the only people I know who own guns either use them exclusively for hunting or are police officers. I don't think I've ever met someone who has one for personal protection or for sport. I don't know that I'd attribute this to the laws as I think it might be a cultural thing. Violent crime is pretty low here, so people just don't feel like they need lethal weapons. 

I honestly don't know if restricting access to guns in the States would help because there seems to be a prevalent attitude that people are "entitled" to them. If you feel entitled to something, you're going to get it whether its legal or not. I think people in Canada don't have guns because, largely, we don't want them.

Soooooo, I'm not sure what the solution is.  :-\
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Siz

Quote from: Tank on August 06, 2012, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Ali on August 06, 2012, 05:42:38 PM
So the pro-gun people in the US always argue that making guns illegal will only take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens because criminals don't care if guns are illegal.  Thereby leaving law abiding citizens to the mercy of gun wielding criminals.  My thought is that this is probably not entirely true because surely it's got to be harder for even the criminals to get guns if they don't sell them everywhere.  So just curious, for those of you that live in countries where guns are illegal or at least harder to get a hold of, what is your perspective?  Do you see a lot of law abiding citizens being terrorized by criminals with illegal guns?
Personally I think that the 'horse has bolted' as far as gun control goes in the USA. There are simply too many guns to ever realistically be taken out of circulation.

A lot of gun crime in the UK is gang on gang stuff. You very rarely hear of hand guns being used in hold ups or the like. The weapon of choice for bank robbers is the sawn off shotgun and that can still be obtained if a gun owner's house is targeted.

The biggest obstacle in the US is the second ammendment which might have been right for the time it was written, but soooo out of date. There is no going back as the Gun Lobby enjoys massive support and have feet under most serious political tables.

There's a fairly straightforward correlation between gun availability and gun-related deaths. Why would a person need a gun? Oh yeah, to shoot people! Duh! http://www.veganpeace.com/gun_control/GunAvailability.htm

I've noted before there should be a single question on a gun license application form: 'Do you want to own a gun?' If the answer is 'yes' then you are unsuitable to hold one.

In London one must be more weary of knives. Still a threat but much easier to stay out of range. And there is a much higher emotional investment charged to their malignant use. It is a comfort to know that the chances of coming across a gun toter are close to zero.

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Stevil

Lets take a look at some facts:
List of countries by firearm-related death rate
USA is high on the list, behind countries in unrest and turmoil e.g. South Africa, Columbia, El Salvador...
Comparision of USA to England/Wales
Gun deaths per 10,000 population is 22.3 times higher
Homocide by guns is 59.1 times higher
Suicide by guns is 17.3 times higher
Unintentional deaths by guns is 23 times higher

Switzerland which is often help up as the poster child of unregulated gun access is quite high on the death by guns list, orders of magnitude above England.
Canada aren't too far off Switzerland, what are Canada's gun laws like?h

Tank

Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2012, 08:31:30 PM
Lets take a look at some facts:
List of countries by firearm-related death rate
USA is high on the list, behind countries in unrest and turmoil e.g. South Africa, Columbia, El Salvador...
Comparision of USA to England/Wales
Gun deaths per 10,000 population is 22.3 times higher
Homocide by guns is 59.1 times higher
Suicide by guns is 17.3 times higher
Unintentional deaths by guns is 23 times higher

Switzerland which is often help up as the poster child of unregulated gun access is quite high on the death by guns list, orders of magnitude above England.
Canada aren't too far off Switzerland, what are Canada's gun laws like?h
Switzerland's gun crime is massively biased by men killing unfaithful wives.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

xSilverPhinx

I don't know the Brazilian gun laws all that well, but it isn't commonplace for civilians to walk around with concealed weapons. Criminals get theirs abroad, by breaking into police and military barracks or stealing people's guns. I've never seen a gun shop around here. ???

I'm really not that surprised that Brazil is so high on that list.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Crow

Gun crime is rare but not uncommon, it is primarily gang related and therefore doesn't have much of an effect on the public, until it goes tits up then you get a Rhys Jones incident but is very rare. We have specialised police firearms units rather than every copper with a gun, which are only used in cases where they think the visual presence is necessary or a threat that may require firepower. Most of the guns on the streets comes from replicas that are adjusted or guns that are legal but have been stolen, it is also regional as well with gun crime being higher in London and Manchester.

I have never seen a gun in the UK [edit: well a proper gun]. Knifes on the other hand are a different story.
Retired member.

Ali

Haha Siz, I like your application question and agree.  People always say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" but it seems like guns sure do make it a heck of a lot easier.  Also, guns are made specifically for killing people, so I don't see how, when you make a device specifically for killing people, and then make it available to the general public, people can still act shocked when humans use guns to do exactly what they were meant to do.

That's interesting about the knives though.  I must be sheltered, I've never seen either a gun or a knife pulled "in anger" or to threaten anyone. 

Buddy

Quote from: Ali on August 06, 2012, 10:51:59 PM
That's interesting about the knives though.  I must be sheltered, I've never seen either a gun or a knife pulled "in anger" or to threaten anyone. 

It is something that you don't want to see.
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Budhorse4 on August 07, 2012, 12:42:28 AM
Quote from: Ali on August 06, 2012, 10:51:59 PM
That's interesting about the knives though.  I must be sheltered, I've never seen either a gun or a knife pulled "in anger" or to threaten anyone. 

It is something that you don't want to see.

It's a topic I avoid with my girlfriend, unless she wants to talk about it, since she's been there more than once.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

DeterminedJuliet

Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2012, 08:31:30 PM
Canada aren't too far off Switzerland, what are Canada's gun laws like?

I dunno, but I'm willing to bet that most of those accidental gun deaths are from hunting accidents.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Asmodean

Our gun laws are rather liberal, however the black market is small and most law-abiding citizens have better things to spend their coin on than guns.

Oh, there are probably more hunting rifles than people in the country, but those tend only to be used for hunting.
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