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Started by Recusant, July 05, 2018, 09:58:38 PM

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Recusant

. . . Because we can trust these religious devotees to make sure the babies go to good homes (who better to have an insight into family dynamics and financial responsibility?) and of course the money is used to help their charity.

"Mother Teresa India charity home 'sold babies'" | BBC

QuoteA woman working at Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity in the eastern Indian state of Jharkhand has been arrested for allegedly selling a 14-day-old baby.

Two other women employees from the centre have been detained and are being questioned about other possible cases.

Police took action after the state's Child Welfare Committee (CWC) registered a complaint.

The charity has not responded to BBC requests for comment.

"We have found out that some other babies have also been illegally sold from the centre," a police official told BBC Hindi's Niraj Sinha. "We have obtained the names of the mothers of these babies and are further investigating."

Police also recovered 140,000 rupees ($2,150; £1,625) from the centre, which is located in Jharkhand's capital, Ranchi.

[Continues . . .]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


drfreemlizard

Recusant, let me chip in to say this disgusts me. Such things fly in the face of what true Christianity stands for.

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Dave

Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 06, 2018, 02:36:36 AM
Recusant, let me chip in to say this disgusts me. Such things fly in the face of what true Christianity stands for.

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Like so many other things the "Christian" churches do?
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drfreemlizard

Yes, Dave. Like too many things people calling themselves Christians do.

If someone claims to be a Christian, but their life is lived contrary to the scripture, they are fake. Not my judgment, the Bible's.

Makes me think of a church Sandra Craft mentioned in her area, that gives out aid to the homeless *only* after they pray and 'accept Jesus'. Again, this is wrong and Jesus is not pleased with this.

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Recusant

No true Scotsman would do such a thing.  ::)
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Dave

Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 06, 2018, 12:58:25 PM
Yes, Dave. Like too many things people calling themselves Christians do.

If someone claims to be a Christian, but their life is lived contrary to the scripture, they are fake. Not my judgment, the Bible's.

Makes me think of a church Sandra Craft mentioned in her area, that gives out aid to the homeless *only* after they pray and 'accept Jesus'. Again, this is wrong and Jesus is not pleased with this.

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Ah, you know what Jesus thinks? You know what a book written by just about everyone but Jesus claims.
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Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

drfreemlizard

Well, the gospels were written either by eyewitnesses of Christ, or by people who had investigated eyewitness testimony, people who Jesus had been teaching for years. So I would say the New Testament is an accurate record of his teaching and life.

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drfreemlizard

And Dave, can you honestly read the gospels, analyzing the teachings and character of Jesus, and conclude He would be OK with this kind of behavior?

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Dave

#8
Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 07, 2018, 02:25:01 PM
And Dave, can you honestly read the gospels, analyzing the teachings and character of Jesus, and conclude He would be OK with this kind of behavior?

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Well, I have to agree that if he ever existed, as man or an avatar of a god, and even a fraction of what others said about him is true then, yeah, he was an OK kind of entity. I think I could get on with him were he real, but not as a legend with not substantial evidence (no, the NT bible is not substantial evidence, it is, sometines contradictory, hearsay that was written after the events and often retranslated almost out of meaning in places it seems.

But, that gives you the right to say, "I believe Jesus would have condemned such behaviour." You canjot put yourself in his mind, only interpret what you believe would have been there. You cannot know for sure - and there is another aspect of the gulf between us!*

I treat all history critically, even that as recent as the Gulf wars. And there is not even an historical basis for Jesus from what I gave seen and read over the years.

*Later: well there may be a spindly, but secure, bridge called "Humanity" over that gulf that transcends the differences in causes and responsibilities.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Recusant

Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 07, 2018, 02:22:06 PM
Well, the gospels were written either by eyewitnesses of Christ, or by people who had investigated eyewitness testimony, people who Jesus had been teaching for years. So I would say the New Testament is an accurate record of his teaching and life.

Do you believe that "Mark," "Matthew," and "Luke" were actually written by people who had lived and travelled with Jesus? If so, on what basis do you believe that?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


xSilverPhinx

Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 07, 2018, 02:22:06 PM
Well, the gospels were written either by eyewitnesses of Christ, or by people who had investigated eyewitness testimony, people who Jesus had been teaching for years. So I would say the New Testament is an accurate record of his teaching and life.

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Assumption after assumption...
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Dave

Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 07, 2018, 02:22:06 PM
Well, the gospels were written either by eyewitnesses of Christ, or by people who had investigated eyewitness testimony, people who Jesus had been teaching for years. So I would say the New Testament is an accurate record of his teaching and life.

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Oops, sorry, missed this one.

I refer you to my fellow atheists' comments.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

Quote from: drfreemlizard on July 07, 2018, 02:22:06 PM
[...] people who Jesus had been teaching for years.
[...]
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Seems that Jesus started gathering followers around 28-29CE and was possibly crucified around 30-33CE

Two years minimum, five years max? OK, that is "years" if you want to be as pedantic as me I suppose!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Jesus

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Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus

Alas, it is not a certainty that the Jesus of the new testament ever existed.  His is a good story but it is entirely possible that it is only a story. 

The name Jesus was a common one at the time of the biblical Jesus.  Another man who was a roving preacher in the same time period as the Christian Jesus was named Apolonius.  He had demonstrated magical powers that equaled the feats accorded to JC.  Apolonius was also said to be much more educated than Jesus. He was a man of Carthage.  His  tale may also be a fabrication.  Paul did not pick up on the Carthage guy so Ap'  finished in second place.

Jesus historicity matters because of the phenomenal success of Mark's narrative.    One wonders.....did Jesus break Mary's hymen, bypass her hymen, pop out of her ear, or mysteriously materialize?  Or as the Docetists claimed, did Jesus pass through Mary "like water through a tube" ?  If Jesus was born in the flesh was God the father or was it Joseph, or perhaps Panthera?

Ancient history may not be as accurate as we might like but reading about such subjects as holy men and miracle birth is interesting, even fun, but not necessarily to be taken as reliable accounts. 

Dave

I am quite happy to accept that a charimatic young chap whom, maybe, a bunch of others took advantage of and promoted, existed at that time. He may even have had a perfectly honest mission that he was, literally, willing to die for.

It's just all the totally undubstantiated supernatural stuff that I cannot accept.

Add to that the similar memes and themes in other beleifs at the time (and before) and it seems a bit of a mishmash. Some good promotion (over centuries even) maintained the ideas and some still accept them today. But are they any more valid than the "pagan" beliefs just because of numbers? Get the ear of a few kings at critical times in mankind's history, make a few thing law, and the numbers follow. "Convert" and coerce a populous country and numbers are automatic.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74