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What's on your mind today?

Started by Steve Reason, August 25, 2007, 08:15:06 PM

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Buddy

Quote from: jumbojak on September 19, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
How does it know you were awake?

I  think it senses movement and heartbeat. It can tell awake vs light sleep vs deep sleep
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

jumbojak

That's a little creepy. But I kinda want one. Just to find out how much I'm actually sleeping. Can't be much.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Buddy

Quote from: jumbojak on September 19, 2018, 05:35:00 PM
That's a little creepy. But I kinda want one. Just to find out how much I'm actually sleeping. Can't be much.

It is actually really helpful. I go to sleep and wake up at the same time every day and I couldn't figure out why I was still always tired. Turns out I am a really restless sleeper and I don't go into deep sleep very much. Plus I use it to keep track of steps and exercise. Helped me lose ten pounds this summer.
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

jumbojak

I might try one of the knockoff fit bits. $130 is a little steep for something I couldn't wear most of the time.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Dave

Quote from: Buddy on September 19, 2018, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on September 19, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
How does it know you were awake?

I  think it senses movement and heartbeat. It can tell awake vs light sleep vs deep sleep

With my sleep patterns (lousy, up to three visits to the bathtoom, constant turning to relieve the pain in my hips, shortage of breath "fits", those disturbances causing lots of dreams . . .) it would get rather confused and unreliable I suspect!

But, I suppose the name "fitbit" indicates it is not for us falling-apart-at-the-joints ancient ones. My cardiac inplant keeps tabsbon my hesrt rste but I cannot interogate that myself. Have slept with a recording pulse-oximeter clamped to my finger. Oxygen usually just within range but, due to the implant's programming my pulse can go from 60mpb (pacemaker resting rate) to 100bpm just turning over in bed. At 120bpm  the implant starts its therapeutic protcol - that can end with a defib shock if it fails to slow the pace . . .
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Buddy on September 19, 2018, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on September 19, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
How does it know you were awake?

I  think it senses movement and heartbeat. It can tell awake vs light sleep vs deep sleep

What about nightmares? Those will raise your heartbeat and perhaps cause you to move as well.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Buddy

#13086
It's kind of hard to explain over text so I took a screenshot of the app here. That's a normal night of sleep for me.

Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

Dave

Quote from: Buddy on September 20, 2018, 01:41:49 AM
It's kind of hard to explain over text so I took a screenshot of the app here. That's a normal night of sleep for me.

I am wondering what they are actually measuring to determine those sleep states, thought it took an EEG to do so. I am assuming this is a ""wristwatch" type device?

Even pulse rate is not that reliable from other than reliable - tight - skin contact or via clip on light sensors. Even then that would not be a decent indicator of sleep state. Not saying it is a con, just musing on possibilities considering the technoligy I know of.

A little later: seems the science community are as sceptical as me:

QuoteMany fitness trackers measure not only the number of steps you take every day and the calories you burn, but also your sleep habits, with some trackers even claiming to measure the time you spend in each stage of sleep.

Although it might be fun to pore over the data, sleep experts say they are skeptical of fitness wristbands' accuracy in measuring sleep.

Popular trackers, such as the Fitbit Force, include a sleep mode that aims to provide users with some insight into their shuteye, such as how long they slept, and how many times they were restless or woke up. Some trackers go a step further: the Jawbone UP breaks down sleep time into deep and light stages, and the Basis B1 recently launched a new sleep analysis that aims to measure REM sleep in addition to deep and light sleep stages.

Fitness trackers' ability to measure sleep often comes from sensors called accelerometers, which detect a wearer's motion, along with the speed and direction of that motion.

Experts say that while most trackers can in theory tell when a person is awake versus asleep, they are prone to mistakes. And as far as distinguishing sleep stages, trackers that include only an accelerometer as their sensor, "can't do what they claim," said Hawley Montgomery-Downs, a sleep researcher and associate professor at West Virginia University, who has studied the accuracy of sleep trackers. [Best Fitness Tracker Bands]

That's because although an accelerometer monitors your movement, "you move the same amount whether you're in deep sleep, or lighter stages of sleep," Montgomery-Downs said.

https://www.livescience.com/42710-fitness-trackers-sleep-monitoring-accuracy.html

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Buddy

Fitbit charge 2. I'm not going to argue that it's the most accurate, but for the most part it is pretty spot on for recording when I wake up. It clocks the times that I'll get woken up by the cats when u forget to kick them out.
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

Dave

Quote from: Buddy on September 20, 2018, 04:30:20 AM
Fitbit charge 2. I'm not going to argue that it's the most accurate, but for the most part it is pretty spot on for recording when I wake up. It clocks the times that I'll get woken up by the cats when u forget to kick them out.

Thanks, Buddy, but I did what I ought to have done before asking, looked up the general idea of the devices - see my addition to my post.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

This is a fascinating subject!

QuoteCardiovascular Activity One of the possible functions of sleep is to give the heart a chance to rest from the constant demands of waking life. As compared to wakefulness, during non-REM sleep there is an overall reduction in heart rate and blood pressure. During REM sleep, however, there is a more pronounced variation in cardiovascular activity, with overall increases in blood pressure and heart rate. Additionally, changes in blood flow that cause erections to occur in males or swelling of the clitoris in females is characteristic of REM sleep The underlying reason for these considerable neural and physiological variations in REM sleep is currently unknown, and may be a by-product of REM-related changes in nervous system activity or related to dream content.

http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/science/what/characteristics

Maybe, with enough processing of body movement and heart rate, via a decent algorithm of course,  you could get a, sort of, approximation of sleep quality on a good day night.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus

My clamp on the finger oxy/pulse gizmo is fun to use but I suspect that it lies.  I can put in on one finger of my right hand and get a reading and when transferred to the left hand the reading is different.  I can cheat the gizmo by using deep inhalations that almost surely raises my oxy reading. My device has a graph that displays my pulse rate and the inevitable glitches in the heart rate.  It seems that I have long had an irregular heart beat.  I hesitate to call it arithmia but that is probably what it is.  That has been going on for some twenty years or more and I have not had any chest pains or other indications of heart episodes.  Nonetheless it does capture my attention.  At this age I reality tells me that Imay not be long for this world.  Meanwhile I do whatever I want to do without any noticeable distress.  Rowing machine, bike riding, kayak paddling and so on does not seem to change my ability to function.

One of these days I will have a fatal episode and one of the things that concerns me is that I will not be able to continue my forays into the HAf forum.  I am going to miss you guys when that happens.  Meanwhile ...............I wish my forum friends the best of everything.

hermes2015

Quote from: Icarus on September 20, 2018, 05:47:36 AM
One of these days I will have a fatal episode and one of the things that concerns me is that I will not be able to continue my forays into the HAf forum.  I am going to miss you guys when that happens.  Meanwhile ...............I wish my forum friends the best of everything.

Icarus, I've also thought about that. Before my hip replacement I asked my daughter to inform HAF if I should die under the knife. Perhaps I should put an "inform HAF" clause in my will.
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

Dave

Quote from: Icarus on September 20, 2018, 05:47:36 AM
My clamp on the finger oxy/pulse gizmo is fun to use but I suspect that it lies.  I can put in on one finger of my right hand and get a reading and when transferred to the left hand the reading is different.

The pulse rate should be the same, blood pressure can be assymetrical so the amplitude and shape of the plethismographic display might be different.

QuoteI can cheat the gizmo by using deep inhalations that almost surely raises my oxy reading. My device has a graph that displays my pulse rate and the inevitable glitches in the heart rate.  It seems that I have long had an irregular heart beat.  I hesitate to call it arithmia but that is probably what it is.  That has been going on for some twenty years or more and I have not had any chest pains or other indications of heart episodes.  Nonetheless it does capture my attention.  At this age I reality tells me that Imay not be long for this world.  Meanwhile I do whatever I want to do without any noticeable distress.  Rowing machine, bike riding, kayak paddling and so on does not seem to change my ability to function.

One of these days I will have a fatal episode and one of the things that concerns me is that I will not be able to continue my forays into the HAf forum.  I am going to miss you guys when that happens.  Meanwhile ...............I wish my forum friends the best of everything.

Do you get short of breath? Trouble is, unless there is a sudden, gross change in heart rhythm, as I suffered, it can be dismissed as "just getting older". Which, of course, it is . . . I would strongly advise you to get it checked, Icarus, if it is atrial fibrillation it can csuse clots to form in the heart. Apart from the impact on the wallet over there warfarin is pretty low on side effects, you may bleed a little longer with cuts (I don't), the necessary regular checks are the worst one!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Buddy on September 20, 2018, 01:41:49 AM
It's kind of hard to explain over text so I took a screenshot of the app here. That's a normal night of sleep for me.

Your REM phase looks normal-ish, in total around 2 hours should be spent in REM for someone your age. It's funny that the app signals that you woke up during the last REM cycle, typically in EEGs REM brainwaves are very similar to those you have when awake. Though yeah, I know the tracker doesn't record brainwaves...

The tracker's accuracy aside, a good night's sleep for someone in their 20s will typically have that amount of REM sleep, have less and you'll feel you've got a sleep deficit.   
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey