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"He's Not A Christian!"

Started by xSilverPhinx, October 29, 2018, 04:33:50 PM

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xSilverPhinx

In a recent conversation I had with a born-again relative about the elections and the ultra-rightwing Christian creature who will govern the country come January 1st (the Turd), I got that as an answer. "He's not a Christian." 

"That's a fallacy", I replied. "No true Scotsman."

But no, they were adamant that a man who says other citizens should be tortured, who wants to arm the population, who defends traditional family values yet got married three times and whose slogan might as well be 'bring back the military dictatorship! Bring back the censorship!' cannot be a Christian in any way or form.

All that hate. All that rage. If the Turd isn't a Christian then most others aren't either. All the polls showed huge numbers of evangelicals and Catholics voted for that Turd. Call it what you want, but to them, he's one of their own.

However, if some get their way and the Turd isn't a Christian, and those people who validate him (voted for him) aren't as well, then what are they?

Christianity is not a religion. It is a number of related tribes.

Maybe the only true Christian there was in history was Jesus himself, if he existed. As far as I know, Jesus did not defend torture.

Hypocrites...so many hypocrites everywhere.   
   
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Ecurb Noselrub

Typically, I accept other people's self-description.  If they say they are Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, etc., I accept that.  They may not be the best whatever, but they are a whatever.

Sandra Craft

Are any of them defending The Turd with the line "he's just a baby Xtian"?  That's something I've heard used in 45's defense and I was wondering if it was a local or international Xtian rationalization.

I'm sorry that your recent election ended as badly as our last one did.  We seem to be headed into a global fascist apocalypse that will make a zombie apocalypse look like playtime with bunnies.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Ecurb Noselrub

Trump is not a baby Christian.  He's a Christian who is hypocritical, a liar, an egomaniac, a demogogue, an adulterer, a sex offender, a traitor, and ignorant of many things.  Christianity is way down on his list of traits.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 30, 2018, 11:38:34 AM
Trump is not a baby Christian.  He's a Christian who is hypocritical, a liar, an egomaniac, a demogogue, an adulterer, a sex offender, a traitor, and ignorant of many things.  Christianity is way down on his list of traits.

I pretty much agree.  In my opinion, Trump is no more a Xtian than Hitler was -- they just found Xtian god-talk useful for manipulating large numbers of gullible people.  (I hate to keep making Trump/Hitler comparisons, but at this point it's unavoidable)

But "baby Xtian" is something I hear a lot from Trump-supporting evangelicals, tho I don't know whether they're serious or just parroting a line.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Icarus

If he is a Baby Christian, perhaps we should change his diapers.

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Sandra Craft on October 29, 2018, 09:18:27 PM
Are any of them defending The Turd with the line "he's just a baby Xtian"?  That's something I've heard used in 45's defense and I was wondering if it was a local or international Xtian rationalization.

I'm sorry that your recent election ended as badly as our last one did.  We seem to be headed into a global fascist apocalypse that will make a zombie apocalypse look like playtime with bunnies.

No, I've never heard anything equivalent to that term being used to describe the Turd. :notsure: Do they call Trump that because of his tantrums? :lol:

Yeah, the rise of the far-right is definitely a tendency in some parts of the world. :(
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Icarus

I have been reading a book titled Prius or Pickup.  It is an examination of the two opposite points of view by our US citizens.  The authors talk a lot about biopolitics.   It seems that there are differences in some of the biological makeup  between conservatives and liberals. In fact it has been observed by brain imaging studies in the US and UK that there is a measurable difference in the size of the amygdala of liberals and conservatives.  The amygdala being the part of the brain that governs survival instincts.

Silver have you ever heard of such a thing as brain element sizes influencing ones perception?    For damned sure, conservatives are wired a little bit differently than liberals.  Conservatives have stronger gag reflexes, their blinking responses to perceived possible danger is more pronounced.

On a more earthy level, the conservatives are demonstrably more likely to favor pickup trucks than hybrid vehicles such as the Prius. They are also more likely to cherish their guns, firmly locked doors, and display some degree of xenophobia..................as in; "build the wall" Conservatives have heightened senses of fear.

Am I being conned by these two authors who are Political Science professors at the University of North Carolina? 

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Icarus on October 31, 2018, 10:37:03 PM
I have been reading a book titled Prius or Pickup.  It is an examination of the two opposite points of view by our US citizens.  The authors talk a lot about biopolitics.   It seems that there are differences in some of the biological makeup  between conservatives and liberals. In fact it has been observed by brain imaging studies in the US and UK that there is a measurable difference in the size of the amygdala of liberals and conservatives.  The amygdala being the part of the brain that governs survival instincts.

Silver have you ever heard of such a thing as brain element sizes influencing ones perception?    For damned sure, conservatives are wired a little bit differently than liberals.  Conservatives have stronger gag reflexes, their blinking responses to perceived possible danger is more pronounced.

On a more earthy level, the conservatives are demonstrably more likely to favor pickup trucks than hybrid vehicles such as the Prius. They are also more likely to cherish their guns, firmly locked doors, and display some degree of xenophobia..................as in; "build the wall" Conservatives have heightened senses of fear.

Am I being conned by these two authors who are Political Science professors at the University of North Carolina?

That sounds like a really interesting book!

You're not being conned. Brain scans show that people who tend to be on the conservative spectrum tend to have bigger amygdalas  -- the main fear-processing centres of the brain. So yes, they tend to be more fearful and hate...when hate stems from fear.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 31, 2018, 01:35:32 AM

No, I've never heard anything equivalent to that term being used to describe the Turd. :notsure: Do they call Trump that because of his tantrums? :lol:


Sadly, no.  The "baby Xtian" thing is a bit of a compliment -- it means he's a new Xtian and therefore to be forgiven the occasional slip up into "non-Xtian" behavior.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Sandra Craft on November 01, 2018, 06:16:15 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 31, 2018, 01:35:32 AM

No, I've never heard anything equivalent to that term being used to describe the Turd. :notsure: Do they call Trump that because of his tantrums? :lol:


Sadly, no.  The "baby Xtian" thing is a bit of a compliment -- it means he's a new Xtian and therefore to be forgiven the occasional slip up into "non-Xtian" behavior.

How...erm...nice of them? :notsure:

Though it makes sense that he'd be forgiven. As long as he believes Jesus is his lord and saviour he can make plenty of mistakes along the way, right? Isn't that how it works?
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 01, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
Quote from: Sandra Craft on November 01, 2018, 06:16:15 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 31, 2018, 01:35:32 AM

No, I've never heard anything equivalent to that term being used to describe the Turd. :notsure: Do they call Trump that because of his tantrums? :lol:


Sadly, no.  The "baby Xtian" thing is a bit of a compliment -- it means he's a new Xtian and therefore to be forgiven the occasional slip up into "non-Xtian" behavior.

How...erm...nice of them? :notsure:

Though it makes sense that he'd be forgiven. As long as he believes Jesus is his lord and saviour he can make plenty of mistakes along the way, right? Isn't that how it works?

Yes, it is and, even better for Trump, he doesn't even have to be a real Xtian -- just a useful idiot who says he's one.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Bluenose

Frankly, I don't think Trump is a christian, or any other "~ian".  He simply says what he thinks his audience wants to hear.  He has no convictions only talking points.  Today's talking point contradicts yesterday's?  Doesn't matter.  As long as the current audience hears what it wants to hear what he said yesterday does not matter. Yesterday's audience will simply disregards anything that contradicts what they wanted to hear so it's all good.  Trump's utterance are not in accordance with the truth?  Does not matter.  as long as the audience hear what they want to hear.

I'm not sure how we can combat this sort of BS.  As a meme I saw recently said "if Trump supporters were reasonable there wouldn't be any".  The problem as I see it is wilful ignorance and the rejection of anything that might possibly be called intellectual.  Education seems to be the only long term cure, but I fear that there are forces about who want to poison the well of education by inserting anti science crap and doing away with anything that looks like teaching how to critically evaluate arguments.
+++ Divide by cucumber error: please reinstall universe and reboot.  +++

GNU Terry Pratchett


Icarus

NPR program yesterday had the guest author of a piece about how bullshit becomes reality.  The author asserts that Newt Gingrich was the politician who perfected the art of effective lying, cheating, stealing, and beguiling the masses.  (he did not mention Joseph Smith)

The premise is that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. The next part of the method is to be as deliberately obstreperous as possible and particularly in the presence of news reporters. Gingrich pretty much proved that being an ass hole will get you on the news with great regularity.  That regularity is key to the development of a following and eventually a most useful base of gullible voters.

Our Imperial leader has practiced those methods and has no doubt improved on the outrage factors which makes him a household staple of conversation along with often flawed judgements.  ........I think it was P.T. Barnum who opined that; "A sucker is born every minute" H.L. Mencken had some zingers that described the ineptitude of so much of the American public.

Icarus

It appears that it is a very good idea to be; Not a christian in certain countries or regions.  I am thinking of the Pakistani case of Asia Bibi. A woman who is a Christian has been in prison for eight years. She has recently been pardoned by the supreme council for having presumably committed blasphemy.  She had once said that the prophet Muhammed who married a six year old girl would now be labeled as a pedophile. Although she is out of prison, there are extremists who want to hang her in public.

That brings me to thought of the possible probable plight of a PHD level Christian Pakistani woman who was once an esteemed contributor here at HAF.  I worry for her, I care about her.  She was, and hopefully still is, a live and valued member of the more enlightened human race.