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Megan Phelps on God's will and why she is no longer Christian (Video)

Started by Arturo, March 27, 2018, 04:27:59 AM

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Arturo

This gets deep into a question I've pondered for awhile and adds a new side to the question that I never knew was there and was often told that it was not.



Also I wasn't sure where to put this so mods or whomever can move this.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dragonia

So I'm curious about what your specific questions are. I love this lady, how knowledgeable and articulate she is. Her gentle, calm demeanor seems like it could win anyone over.
I actually watched (listened to) the entire 2 hour interview with Joe Rogan, and although it's not the first time I've heard her, it was definitely the most in-depth.
So thanks for this link!
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)

xSilverPhinx

What about free will? Christians like to say we have that, right? How does that fit into the picture? :popcorn:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Gnostic Christian Bishop

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2018, 09:59:01 PM
What about free will? Christians like to say we have that, right? How does that fit into the picture? :popcorn:

One does not need a God to know why we have evil here. Nature explains it quite well.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it's all man's fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.


Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Google evolutionary theology for a slightly different Christian view.

Regards
DL 




Arturo

Quote from: Dragonia on April 02, 2018, 08:30:18 PM
... I love this lady, how knowledgeable and articulate she is. Her gentle, calm demeanor seems like it could win anyone over.
I actually watched (listened to) the entire 2 hour interview with Joe Rogan, and although it's not the first time I've heard her, it was definitely the most in-depth.
So thanks for this link!

Yeah I watched the entire interview as well and wanted to find the clip when I was done.

QuoteSo I'm curious about what your specific questions are.

Well it was the same as hers. God made people specifically to do wrong, and then be punished for it. And you can't go against it, because it's God's will. But I was always told God gave us free-will. And seeing that the bible actually says that god made people specifically to be evil, and to be punished for it, because that's what God wants, was the thing I never knew was there. So it helps me conceptualize that god was child on an ant hill with a magnifying glass. Pretty much a psychopath.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱