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Community => Life As An Atheist => Topic started by: Siz on October 23, 2015, 03:41:08 PM

Title: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on October 23, 2015, 03:41:08 PM
OK, so here's the scoop. As many of you know, around 7 years ago Mrs Siz had entered the church community to get the little Sizes into a good primary school... which worked a treat. MiniSiz has now left that school and moved on to a pretty decent local, single-sex comprehensive, taking with him great academic prospects. Meanwhile, MicroSiz has another couple of years before she moves up. Sadly, there're no decent local comprehensives that she's likely to get in to. So MrsSiz has embarked once again on a long-term strategy to get MicroSiz into one of the very decent CofE schools. This time though, she not only attends church, but has also enrolled on a weekly course - something about helping to bring your children closer to God.  :-\

So, I'm now no longer allowed to enjoy my little anti-religion rants at the dinner table. :-X And I've got an increasingly millitant Christian in the house (OK, equal and opposite to the opinionated, and outspoken atheist that has attempted to rule the philosophical roost for most of their lives).

I suspect that the kids - both now self-identifying atheists - may come to resent the stance that Mum has now adopted. :-\

Well, I shall take a step back and try not to rock the boat (cos I'd love for her to get in to the school). But it's going to be quite a feat for us all to negotiate our way through this rather messy quagmire.

Whaddya think?

Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 23, 2015, 04:20:35 PM
Tough situation you're in, Siz, especially since it involves your children but interacting with an increasingly militant Christian can be done. My mother and I simply don't bring it up any more, and when she was going through the initial stages of her regression into Christianity (what I call her OMG I found god phase) the Bible was all that she would read, all her new friends were from the church community and she liked to talk about her new found religion a LOT, but eventually the enthusiasm died down, she left the church and became 'spiritual', whatever that is. She doesn't feel the need to be so opinionated and zealous anymore. Hopefully Mrs. Siz will follow a similar route. My fingers are crossed for ya.

I'm not familiar with Church of England schools, do they actively try to indoctrinate students or take the live and let live stance?   
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on October 23, 2015, 04:31:23 PM
Oh, it's very much a live-and-let-live approach here in England. They're pretty harmless really. In fact, I know several atheists who go to local churches just for the community.

I think we'll be fine. I just need to reign myself in a bit - and she knows better than to engage me on the subject of religion. I recon the kids will be more vocal than I (for which I'll get the blame, of course). My work is done!
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Tank on October 23, 2015, 06:58:33 PM
You'll have to try being subtle....












...You're fucked.

Seriously, good luck!
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Essie Mae on October 24, 2015, 09:09:19 AM
It's all to do with our twisted, inconsistent education system.  As good parents, that's how you have to behave.  But I'm sure it will be OK in the end.  Even the bible seems to suggest there's no regression into religion:

"You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet."
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: OldGit on October 24, 2015, 09:39:24 AM
I dunno, Siz, but I wish you the very best.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Crow on October 24, 2015, 01:26:06 PM
As somebody who isn't a parent and has little experience with children who pretty much does whatever they want I don't know how relevant or worthwhile my opinion would be. But to combat it I would attempt to introduce them to other religions in an effort to open their eyes to different concept and ideologies so they can view things from a larger vantage point that nobody would be able to argue against as it is under the guise of education. Though there is always the risk of them falling for another religion but at least they will have made their own mind up rather than being force fed the opinions of parents.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Crow on October 24, 2015, 01:55:20 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 23, 2015, 04:20:35 PM
I'm not familiar with Church of England schools, do they actively try to indoctrinate students or take the live and let live stance?

I learned more about other religions from my teachers at my CofE primary school than I did about Christianity. The three stand outs was a Jewish teacher who always harped on about her religion it probably also helped that she use to be obsessed with Orwell and would play audio cassettes of his books twice a week when we should have been doing religious studies, a teacher who had spent the last ten years travelling and teaching around Africa and he use to tell stories about all the different religions all the time, and a Hindu teacher that use to always tell us about the different stories in Hinduism that correlated to what we had heard in Friday assembly. The head teacher use to make us all meditate every assembly she took. One of my closest friends dad was also the vicar who gave the Friday assemblies, he was more interested in collecting weapons for the walls of his study than preaching and I had heard him say that he is a priest because he likes the ideals but didn't believe most of it.

Apart from a Friday assembly which was essentially the vicar doing warm up for Sunday in a more light hearted way usually with a projector he use to draw cartoons on and read a few passages from the bible and tell some stories of his own you would also get choir practice, the rest would be events for christingle, easter, harvest festival,the nativity play and I think that was it. So you can see it was very relaxed in my primary school, it may be stricter in other areas but overall CofE is very relaxed and doesn't infringe on the everyday workings of communities it is just a spoke for people to engage with if they want it.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on October 24, 2015, 03:40:06 PM
^
Yep, that's about the size of it at MicroSiz' CofE primary. They all prey at assemblies and do several functions (Easter/Xmas etc...) alongside the local church, and there is an optional bible study club, but otherwise it's very low key.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on October 24, 2015, 05:00:03 PM
Quote from: Crow on October 24, 2015, 01:26:06 PM
As somebody who isn't a parent and has little experience with children who pretty much does whatever they want I don't know how relevant or worthwhile my opinion would be. But to combat it I would attempt to introduce them to other religions in an effort to open their eyes to different concept and ideologies so they can view things from a larger vantage point that nobody would be able to argue against as it is under the guise of education. Though there is always the risk of them falling for another religion but at least they will have made their own mind up rather than being force fed the opinions of parents.

I'm not particularly worried about them being brainwashed - I think I have given them enough logic and reason to keep them safe (and if not, so be it). What I'm more concerned about is them being dragged into situations that they are not comfortable with or that makes them miserable. While attending a CofE school (or, indeed, going to church on a Sunday morning) remains positive for MicroSiz (and she does, for the time being, seem to enjoy her little church club) I have no problem.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Claireliontamer on October 24, 2015, 05:36:54 PM
Scamp goes to a CofE primary school too, as did I when I was younger.  There is some religious aspect to what she does.  Last year in Y1 they were supposed to draw/write about the things God made.  She left her page blank.......that didn't go down too well at the school.
Then there was the nativity episode, which I'm sure I posted about on here; she was playing Mary and so supposed to hold the baby Jesus, in the middle of the performance she turned to the watching crowd and declared Jesus wasn't real.  I don't think I have any worries about her! 

In terms of secondary school in a few years time, around here there is only the Catholic option in terms of religion.  It is a good school but I won't send her there as I know they can be quite extreme in the ways they teach the religious aspect. 
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Crow on October 24, 2015, 05:40:39 PM
Quote from: Siz on October 24, 2015, 05:00:03 PM
I'm not particularly worried about them being brainwashed - I think I have given them enough logic and reason to keep them safe (and if not, so be it). What I'm more concerned about is them being dragged into situations that they are not comfortable with or that makes them miserable. While attending a CofE school (or, indeed, going to church on a Sunday morning) remains positive for MicroSiz (and she does, for the time being, seem to enjoy her little church club) I have no problem.

Looks like your mind is made up. Children generally don't like school, I hated secondary school and wanted to go to a private school with some of my friends but my mum is a big on left politics so that was never going to happen even though she later said she regretted the decision. Even though I despised school and it made me very miserable at the time it was a learning experience, unhappiness isn't always a negative. Plus if things don't work you can always put your foot down and move him.

But where would CofE be without the schools.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Claireliontamer on October 24, 2015, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: Crow on October 24, 2015, 05:40:39 PM

Looks like your mind is made up. Children generally don't like school.


Having been around a variety of schools (from a range of socioeconomic areas too) in some kind of capacity on and off for the past ten years I don't actually think this is true.  I don't think kids like the education system (nor do I and I work in it!) but for lots of kids school provides stability and friendship in their lives. 

It is always interesting on GCSE results day when students come in for results and then realise that for some it's the last time they'll be in the school.  The vast majority are sad about leaving when it actually comes to it. 

Of course there are some who genuinely hate the whole experience but from what I've seen they're in the minority. 
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on October 24, 2015, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: Crow
Looks like your mind is made up. Children generally don't like school...

Generally? Really?

My kids LOVE school!.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Crow on October 24, 2015, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Siz on October 24, 2015, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: Crow
Looks like your mind is made up. Children generally don't like school...

Generally? Really?

My kids LOVE school!.

Damn. Apart from friends and easy ways to make money there was nothing good about it (well primary school was great and so was college and uni). Take the teachers away, the 5 days a week, 3 hours worth of homework everyday, crappy uniforms, people making something out to be far more important than it was ever going to be, pest gym teachers trying to get you to join their joke of a team, awful food, then it would have been fine. Actually just take away the teachers.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Tank on February 16, 2016, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.
Awwwww thanks Siz *blushes* :)
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:55:31 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 16, 2016, 08:18:52 AM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.
Awwwww thanks Siz *blushes* :)

Siz - Master of the veiled snide...  :o
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Crow on February 16, 2016, 11:09:34 AM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AMCrow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners.

It isn't Londoners fault that everyone decided to move there.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Bad Penny on February 16, 2016, 11:16:00 AM
What kind of modernist consumer focused master of veiled snide crafts a snide and then immediately after announces his snide. Ahhhh, it's not like it used to be.

Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Bluenose on February 16, 2016, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.

Well, although I was born in Carshalton and hold a Pommie passport, I was neutralised as an Aussie around 50 years ago (and so also hold an Aussie passport) and furthermore have First Fleeters in my ancestry on my mother's side. To wit one Anthony Rope and Elizabeth Pulley (I kid you not) who are reputed to have had the first European child conceived on Australian soil. (The 26th January 1788 in Sydney Cove was apparently a riotous affair.)  I Thus feel fully qualified as both a Brit and a Colonial and therefore obviously not a Northerner, stinky or otherwise, to refute Siz's scurrilous aspersion despite not having been here to defend myself! :P
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Bad Penny on February 16, 2016, 12:44:30 PM
You try too hard and are thus "neutralised"
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on February 16, 2016, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bluenose on February 16, 2016, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.

Well, although I was born in Carshalton and hold a Pommie passport, I was neutralised as an Aussie around 50 years ago (and so also hold an Aussie passport) and furthermore have First Fleeters in my ancestry on my mother's side. To wit one Anthony Rope and Elizabeth Pulley (I kid you not) who are reputed to have had the first European child conceived on Australian soil. (The 26th January 1788 in Sydney Cove was apparently a riotous affair.)  I Thus feel fully qualified as both a Brit and a Colonial and therefore obviously not a Northerner, stinky or otherwise, to refute Siz's scurrilous aspersion despite not having been here to defend myself! :P

Carshalton? No shit! That's where MiniSiz and I do our turbo training every week.

However, don't even think that a half-century old claim qualifies you. We've rewritten the book several times since then.  Waltz on Matilda, waltz on...
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Recusant on February 16, 2016, 07:17:41 PM
If I've somehow managed to acquire the designation of "honourary Brit" I shall accept it with equanimity, while reserving the right to register my dissatisfaction at some later date, depending on circumstances.  :toff:
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: Recusant on February 16, 2016, 07:17:41 PM
If I've somehow managed to acquire the designation of "honourary Brit" I shall accept it with equanimity, while reserving the right to register my dissatisfaction at some later date, depending on circumstances. :toff:

See, you're a natural!

...Though dissatisfaction is best registered by default regrdless of circumstances.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: ZenithOClock on February 16, 2016, 11:29:03 PM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.

I'm from the deep, deep South originally, a small village in West Sussex - like the Brit version of Asterix. I know London like the back of me old man's hand (he was a proper cockney) [the proper way to say cockney is 'proper cockney'].

I like to consider myself a fine proponent of the snide, also lobbing the euphemism bomb is another British skill that is not nearly as appreciated as it should be, don't you agree old chap?

Zen
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Tank on February 17, 2016, 08:20:18 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 16, 2016, 11:29:03 PM
Quote from: Siz on February 16, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Quote from: ZenithOClock on February 15, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I was brought up a Christian and I went to a CofE school. I turned out to be a fine atheist.

Trust MicroSiz will find her way and let MrsSiz have her way Vis-à-vis the edumacation.

Zen
Thanks. We'll see...

Where're you from? There're a few Brits here... but not so many as to ruin it. Recusant is an honourary Brit because he writes with a posh Home Counties accent (but he's not dim like Tim (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1f8UOWF4RY)). Asmo is a wannabe Brit but he hasn't yet mastered the veiled snide. Crow is a fraud Brit because he's insufficiently contemptuous of Londoners. Tank is an unshakeable nice person... unless you shake him by dissing minorities. Then he uses the 'C' word a lot and everyone hides under their desks. There are others who you haven't met yet, but they're not here to defend themselves so they're just stinky Northerners.

I'm from the deep, deep South originally, a small village in West Sussex - like the Brit version of Asterix. I know London like the back of me old man's hand (he was a proper cockney) [the proper way to say cockney is 'proper cockney'].

I like to consider myself a fine proponent of the snide, also lobbing the euphemism bomb is another British skill that is not nearly as appreciated as it should be, don't you agree old chap?

Zen
I was born in Worthing and my dad in the East End  :)
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: ZenithOClock on February 17, 2016, 08:52:53 PM
Quote from: Tank
I was born in Worthing and my dad in the East End  :)

Now that's synchronicity. Worthing is a little East of my village. My grandfather owned the beach huts on Selsey beach, don't know what happened to them though, they mysteriously vanished out of the family... I used to play round Pagham harbour as a kid, I knew stories about the secret harbour long before I understood anything about WWII.

My old man was born in Stepney but moved out to Harmondsworth as a kid. He used to play on the old London Bridge stones before they got shipped out to the US.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Essie Mae on April 04, 2016, 11:02:31 PM
Well I don't see why anyone should be contemptuous of us Londoners; I can be both nice and snide, and I have never met a northerner who was stinky.  I did know a Lancastrian once and she was always going on and on about how wonderful it was.  I got so fed up with it that I asked her, quite innocently why she didnt go back there.  Its the only time in my adult life that I had a friendship terminated, but I didnt mind. 

I have a lovely aunt and uncle in Selsey who I visit several times a year.

My dad was born in the Cromwell Road, and my Mum in Paddington. I was born in Earls Court, just round the corner from Olympia. My dad registered my birth in Kensington because he thought it was posher.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Crow on April 05, 2016, 01:00:36 AM
Quote from: Essie Mae on April 04, 2016, 11:02:31 PM
Well I don't see why anyone should be contemptuous of us Londoners; I can be both nice and snide, and I have never met a northerner who was stinky.  I did know a Lancastrian once and she was always going on and on about how wonderful it was.  I got so fed up with it that I asked her, quite innocently why she didnt go back there.  Its the only time in my adult life that I had a friendship terminated, but I didnt mind. 

I have a lovely aunt and uncle in Selsey who I visit several times a year.

My dad was born in the Cromwell Road, and my Mum in Paddington. I was born in Earls Court, just round the corner from Olympia. My dad registered my birth in Kensington because he thought it was posher.

I don't think anyone is truly contemptuous of Londoners after all there aren't really many of you in the place. The overall contempt is less to do with the city or the people but rather the centralisation of the late eighties government then subsequently governments securing the centralisation at the expense of the rest of the nation.

I should really live in London considering 90% of the work I do is based down there but having lived in the city for a bit it really wasn't for me as there is always that little bit extra you have to do to do anything and it quickly grated on me (I live as central as possible because of that), even though I really like the place. Having lived in Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and London I can honestly say apart from what I just mentioned and working class locals being more than a little bit backwards up north – who are very easy to avoid and really no different than a Cheslea fan – there is pretty much no difference in the day to day.
Title: Re: Regression into Christanity
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on April 07, 2016, 01:42:32 AM
I love London.  I've had no problem with the people when I've visited.  Like any other group of people, some will be nice and others assholes, but my overall experience has been good.