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in some light, can't you sympathize with school shooters?

Started by MusicLovingAtheist, December 22, 2014, 02:04:38 AM

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MusicLovingAtheist

School shooting is very very very very very bad (you hear that you fucking federal agents?). But yeah in another way I sympathize with them because in their eyes they see school as a hostile place where everything is cruel and they feel that the only way to get even is to nuke the place. I am not saying that I condone it. It's just yet another thing where i think people would rather brand these people as evil and not look actual psychology behind these incidents. I often feel like I can sympathize with people who do just about anything wrong. I always try to look at it in a different light and try to imagine to myself what the person who committed the crime was going through. I feel like there is a huge double standard where people act like people who don't have any empathy for others are scum bags, but the irony is the people who look at people who are mentally disturbed are often guilty of the same lack of empathy as the people who they hate. So how does this vicious cycle of hatred and ignorance even stop? In my eyes I don't see it stopping, and I will continue to get ridiculed just because I don't lack the empathy that a lot of our society to blatantly does. I am the one who gets the flack for it. Tell me how that is fair.

Buddy

No. It will be a cold day in hell when I start sympathizing with people who shoot up schools. Those people chose to go to a place and take the lives of children who are more likely than not totally innocent. It makes me sad and upset that a person could hurt so much that they feel the need to lash out in a violent way, but they will never get my sympathy.
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

MusicLovingAtheist

Well the shooters are people too. i don't think that someone becomes less than human as the people who were killed. While I am sad that people died I have to be more sad that someone was in so much mental trauma to cause them to act so violently in the first place. So in a way I do care about the victims but I care more about the people who did it than the people who died, because their lives were the ones that were so fucked up that it lead to the deaths in the first place.

Buddy

Again, it is sad that a shooter is in a place where they feel like they had to kill, but they had that choice. The children and staff of schools do not have that choice. Their lives were cut short because somebody decided to deal with their anger with violence instead of getting the help that they need.
Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

xSilverPhinx

No. We can try to understand why they kill dozens of people, but actually sympathizing with them is going too far.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Tom62

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 22, 2014, 03:09:21 AM
No. We can try to understand why they kill dozens of people, but actually sympathizing with them is going too far.
No sympathy from me either, ever.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Asmodean

Quote from: MusicLovingAtheist on December 22, 2014, 02:04:38 AM
But yeah in another way I sympathize with them because in their eyes they see school as a hostile place where everything is cruel and they feel that the only way to get even is to nuke the place.
Hm... On a case-by-case basis I may or may not partially agree with you here. I do not sympathize with them, as my sympathy takes a lot to dig out, but I would likely understand some of them at least to a degree if I tried.

Thing is, if a kid who has been bullied nearly to the point of suicide goes and shoots up the place, I understand that. Completely. I don't agree with it, but I do understand. If, however, some self-made, self-proclaimed loser of the loner variety goes in and shoots up his school... Well, I have neither sympathy nor understanding for that individual.

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It's just yet another thing where i think people would rather brand these people as evil and not look actual psychology behind these incidents.
I do agree with you here.

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In my eyes I don't see it stopping, and I will continue to get ridiculed just because I don't lack the empathy that a lot of our society to blatantly does. I am the one who gets the flack for it. Tell me how that is fair.
Oh, I get my share of crap for not always cheering for the victim, or picking the "wrong" victim to align myself with. It's not just about people doing something wrong either. It seems to me that in today's society I live in, if you are not siding with the environment rather than progress, the worker rather than the corporation, the poor rather than the rich and any other "opressed minority", people think less of you. Well, as I see it, the cyanide vapor-spewing corporation deserves an advocate at least as much as the friendly polar bear and sometimes, the victim does deserve at least a portion of the blame.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

I do think that the way criminals are treated, post crime, is downright daft. We make no effort to understand why they committed their crimes and therefore invest no effort in prevention of the crime in the future. I have no sympathy with a school shooter. But I think we should make every effort to discover what physiological/sociological circumstances allowed them (in their own mind) to break such a taboo.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Davin

It's difficult to get my sympathy, I have to understand the situation first. I can understand the abstract of "kid got bullied, so attacked those that harmed them" but in the cases I've read, they tend to shoot up more than those that wronged them. So I cannot understand that. And in turn, I cannot sympathize.

There is the recent school shooting in Pakistan. The perpetrators are said to have shot up the school because the parents of the children supported the westerners. Again, they are not attacking those they see who have slighted them, but innocents who had nothing to do with their perceived slight.

I don't think I will ever be able to sympathize with school shooters unless their reasons and actions start to line up.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

MusicLovingAtheist

and I honestly like ted bundy because he just seems like a cool guy and I like how clever and charismatic he is. I was just using that school shooters being victims as an example to maybe persuade people. I can see now that that was kind of a dumb effort. I honestly judge a killer based on their character and I couldn't care less about their crime in most cases. I don't really like Jeffery Dahmer because he was a creationist. I like Ed Gien because he is the classic creepy old man. I like richard remirez because he just comes off as really badass and I love his hatred for humanity. I really admire John Wayne Gacy because he was another really crafty and clever killer. Him and ted bundy both seem like extremely smart and respectable individuals who I think in a life where they didn't have a murder fetish could have been really excellent and successful people. And then there's my favorite of all time which is Charles Manson, who actually didn't kill anyone in the first place. I have been a fan of charles manson since I was a kid because it is captivating to listen to him talk and he agrees on a lot of points that I have about society (people who treat you like shit gives you equal right). His metaphorical speech is truly something spectacular to watch. I love his music too. His album Lie: Love and Terror Cult was one of my favorite albums in high school.

Davin

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Buddy

Strange but not a stranger<br /><br />I love my car more than I love most people.

MusicLovingAtheist

My psychologist doesn't think it's disturbing. It's only disturbing to you because you don't know me. It's not like I would aspire to be like those people. I just don't feel a sense of self righteous arrogance like other people where they feel better than others. If we live in a society where people seriously see themselves as better than other people then we seriously have a problem. This is one of the reasons I am so cynical. Everyone else is just so naive and says so many incoherent things. Like telling me that I am creepy when everyone who knows me in person says otherwise. How dare you base your world view on something as one dimensional as a line of text. How dare you.

Davin

Quote from: MusicLovingAtheist on December 22, 2014, 07:58:48 PM
My psychologist doesn't think it's disturbing. It's only disturbing to you because you don't know me. It's not like I would aspire to be like those people. I just don't feel a sense of self righteous arrogance like other people where they feel better than others. If we live in a society where people seriously see themselves as better than other people then we seriously have a problem. This is one of the reasons I am so cynical. Everyone else is just so naive and says so many incoherent things. Like telling me that I am creepy when everyone who knows me in person says otherwise. How dare you base your world view on something as one dimensional as a line of text. How dare you.
People get to deem things as creepy or not, it's not only their right, it is good. If what you're writing ends up being creepy when others who know you personally do not find you creepy, then that should be useful information for you to determine what the difference is. How dare someone judge you based on how you present yourself? Nah man, that is what we, as independent humans, are supposed to do. You don't like honest feedback? Well, that's on you.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

MikeyV

I think school shooters have it backwards. They should start with the suicide, then go on a rampage. It's a win-win for everybody.
Life in Lubbock, Texas taught me two things. One is that God loves
you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the
most awful, dirty thing on the face of the earth and you should save
it for someone you love.
   
   -- Butch Hancock.