Hello to all you literature buffs.
I was wondering what you think of the book "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R.R. Martin?
Just today after class was done, a student of mine came up to me and suggested we read it for our English class.
Apparently it involves dragons, a medieval setting a great struggle between good and evil!
I asked my young pupil if it was similar to the Chronicles of Narnia or "The Hobbit".
"Something like that" he said with sort of a suspicious smirk. According to him George R.R Martin is sort of a model American version of JRR Tolkein.
I rather admire Tolkein. A World War 1 veteran, a devout Catholic, a professor (and inventor!) of all manner of languages: Latin, Greek, Anglo Saxon, likely Irish Gaelic (big points for a proud Irish American gal like me!)
Can someone please give me a sober, realistic assessment of this George RR character? Is his pedigree and list of accomplishments somewhat similar to the great JRR? please let me know your opinion of the books and its suitability for a 7th-9th grade English class.
Thank you very much.
Why would you take the advice of a group of hell-bound atheists on such an important matter, SisterAgatha?
Because, I hate to say it, unlike many Catholics (nuns and otherwise) you people seem sort of "open minded." That is you won't "shut down" when you hear about a controversial matter you might not like.
I could always read a book review or two and have... but I want the experiences of people who actually have read the books.
I saw them at Barnes and Noble the other day. They are almost as thick as the Summa Theologia!
With my lessons, prayers, gardening,beekeeping, and spiritual reading I hardly would have time to read through all of them so soon!
I can see its been made into a smutty series for HBO...but I think its possible they exaggerate the inappropriate parts just to get ratings (people can be so low at times!)
Well, well, Sister, how you change so much from being a stereotype nun to a more questioning person. As if you have not really made up your own mind just who or what you are. Or like a troll having trouble maintaining a persona, trying to reinforce an image, whilst challlenging others.
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
Well I have watched the HBO series and enjoyed it because it's not all sweet and loving. There is a but of bite and comedy passably acted.
What do you normally read? What are the last half dozen fiction books you have read and no the Bible doesn't count.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
I noticed that too.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trackie.com%2Ftrack-and-field%2Fimg%2Flayout%2Ficon_quote.jpg&hash=c5a9d5ac5c9c0366d813e18a50510fe9aa16bfc2)Silver:
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
Actually, there is a brand new English course: Interwebz Trollz. It's taking off at an alarming rate. (https://web.stardock.net/images/smiles/themes/digicons/Gagged.png)
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glossophilia.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgrammarnazi.jpeg&hash=7091ecdb82a60da567de64113580b4562637a30c)
:grin:
Quote from: Magdalena on October 04, 2017, 09:53:39 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glossophilia.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgrammarnazi.jpeg&hash=7091ecdb82a60da567de64113580b4562637a30c)
:grin:
Heh. :grin:
Sister (? :notsure: ) Agatha brings out the grammar nazi in me, which generally lies dormant, and increasingly the skeptic, who is starting to believe that it's all a bunch of lies.
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 04, 2017, 08:18:25 PM
I can see its been made into a smutty series for HBO...but I think its possible they exaggerate the inappropriate parts just to get ratings (people can be so low at times!)
Nope. There's plenty of sex - incest, rape, consensual...in the books there's even pedophilia which might please some Catholics.
Quote from: Magdalena on October 04, 2017, 09:53:39 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glossophilia.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgrammarnazi.jpeg&hash=7091ecdb82a60da567de64113580b4562637a30c)
:grin:
Hmm, think there should be a comma between "say" and "softly" . . .
Or should it be "softly say" ?
Quote from: Dave on October 04, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 04, 2017, 09:53:39 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glossophilia.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgrammarnazi.jpeg&hash=7091ecdb82a60da567de64113580b4562637a30c)
:grin:
Hmm, think there should be a comma between "say" and "softly" . . .
Or should it be "softly say" ?
And a period at the end of the sentence. :run!:
I have it, on good authority, that that man sold his soul to the devil! (Read in your best impersonation of Colonel Sanders... or Foghorn Leghorn...)
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
Oh, for a red pen in my hand.
Quote from: Tank on October 04, 2017, 08:35:39 PM
Well I have watched the HBO series and enjoyed it because it's not all sweet and loving. There is a but of bite and comedy passably acted.
I enjoy the series as well, but it's entirely for the actors they've managed to involve. And the dragons.
As for George R. R. Martin, I think he's a terrible writer, a complete hack. I can't say whether he's worse than Anne Rice but the two of them are definitely sharing the bottom of the writer barrel. In my opinion.
If the Sister really wants to dig into the fantasy writers then I would suggest, in addition to Tolkien:
Ursula K. LeGuin
Anne McCaffrey (not a favorite of mine but did write a lot about dragons)
Ray Bradbury
Andre Norton
Susanna Clarke
Marion Zimmer Bradley
Fritz Lieber
Robert E. Howard (very old school)
Jane Yolen
C. J. Cherryh
And that's just a starter list.
edited to add Tanith Lee. Not only an award-winning fantasy writer, but often writes fantasy geared to young adults.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 11:36:03 PM
As for George R. R. Martin, I think he's a terrible writer, a complete hack. I can't say whether he's worse than Anne Rice but the two of them are definitely sharing the bottom of the writer barrel. In my opinion.
I agree he's not among the best out there, but I think he did a pretty good job at creating the GoT universe (not as elaborate as Tolkien's world, of course) while loosely basing his characters and plot on historical people and events, namely those mostly associated with the Wars of the Roses.
QuoteIf the Sister really wants to dig into the fantasy writers then I would suggest, in addition to Tolkien:
Ursula K. LeGuin
Anne McCaffrey (not a favorite of mine but did write a lot about dragons)
Ray Bradbury
Andre Norton
Susanna Clarke
Marion Zimmer Bradley
Fritz Lieber
Robert E. Howard (very old school)
Jane Yolen
C. J. Cherryh
And that's just a starter list.
edited to add Tanith Lee. Not only an award-winning fantasy writer, but often writes fantasy geared to young adults.
That's an impressive list! To my shame I've only read Marion Zimmer Bradley's
The Mists of Avalon, a very long time ago, and loved it.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 05, 2017, 12:47:03 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 11:36:03 PM
As for George R. R. Martin, I think he's a terrible writer, a complete hack. I can't say whether he's worse than Anne Rice but the two of them are definitely sharing the bottom of the writer barrel. In my opinion.
I agree he's not among the best out there, but I think he did a pretty good job at creating the GoT universe (not as elaborate as Tolkien's world, of course) while loosely basing his characters and plot on historical people and events, namely those mostly associated with the Wars of the Roses.
I'll grant he's imaginative but he has no style. I've read one of his books (can't remember the name of it, something about vampires on a river boat around the Civil War) and I tried to read the first GoT book but couldn't shake the feeling I was reading something written by a high school junior . That sort of thing always makes me surly.
QuoteThat's an impressive list! To my shame I've only read Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, a very long time ago, and loved it.
I think you'd also like Susanna Clark. Her Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell made a lot of noise when it came out, tho I prefer her short story collection, The Ladies of Grace Adieu.
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 04, 2017, 08:06:02 PM
Hello to all you literature buffs.
Hello Agatha.
It's funny you mention Game of Thrones.
I know it wouldn't be proper to ask you for a photo,
I picture Anne Headey from the movie The Actors.
She adopted such a lovely Irish accent for the role.
(https://i.imgur.com/D7YyCB4.jpg)
I hope it's not inappropriate to ask but could you,
please give me an idea of the flow of your day.
If I could look at the clock and think Agatha is
milking the goats or mopping the stone floor,
it would bring meaning to my sad existence.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 11:36:03 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 04, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
No way are you an English teacher. You frequently confuse your with you're and it's with its, which are rather basic.
Oh, for a red pen in my hand.
Quote from: Tank on October 04, 2017, 08:35:39 PM
Well I have watched the HBO series and enjoyed it because it's not all sweet and loving. There is a but of bite and comedy passably acted.
I enjoy the series as well, but it's entirely for the actors they've managed to involve. And the dragons.
As for George R. R. Martin, I think he's a terrible writer, a complete hack. I can't say whether he's worse than Anne Rice but the two of them are definitely sharing the bottom of the writer barrel. In my opinion.
If the Sister really wants to dig into the fantasy writers then I would suggest, in addition to Tolkien:
Ursula K. LeGuin
Anne McCaffrey (not a favorite of mine but did write a lot about dragons)
Ray Bradbury
Andre Norton
Susanna Clarke
Marion Zimmer Bradley
Fritz Lieber
Robert E. Howard (very old school)
Jane Yolen
C. J. Cherryh
And that's just a starter list.
edited to add Tanith Lee. Not only an award-winning fantasy writer, but often writes fantasy geared to young adults.
Thank you very much for the list. I happen to know Ursula K LeGuinn and think she is simply divine.
I am unfamiliar with the other books. Guesss Ill have to give them a read!
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 05, 2017, 01:48:26 PM
...
I hope it's not inappropriate to ask but could you,
please give me an idea of the flow of your day.
If I could look at the clock and think Agatha is
milking the goats or mopping the stone floor,
it would bring meaning to my sad existence.
:snicker:
Warm pudding. Hmm, I guess that's usually OK. ;)
I suppose it is worth me saying that I don't see much "fine" literature written these days.
In the sense that I don't see much from this past decade or so that would be worth teaching in a high school literature class.
A big event that happened in the past decade and a half was the Iraq war. Yet I see no literature written about it, certainly nothing comparable to Tim O'Brien's "The things they carried?"
It seems that the 20th century was chock block with fine writers....but then like..IDK... I look at Oprah's book club or the "best sellers" of the New York Times and Barnes and Noble... and I see rather slim pickings.
If you atheists are "in the know" could you tell me what passes for fine literature these days?
Surely that smutty perv, GRR would not..
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 06, 2017, 03:29:18 PM
I suppose it is worth me saying that I don't see much "fine" literature written these days.
In the sense that I don't see much from this past decade or so that would be worth teaching in a high school literature class.
A big event that happened in the past decade and a half was the Iraq war. Yet I see no literature written about it, certainly nothing comparable to Tim O'Brien's "The things they carried?"
It seems that the 20th century was chock block with fine writers....but then like..IDK... I look at Oprah's book club or the "best sellers" of the New York Times and Barnes and Noble... and I see rather slim pickings.
If you atheists are "in the know" could you tell me what passes for fine literature these days?
Surely that smutty perv, GRR would not..
I think "best sellers" are merely a commercial classification - Joe and Joan Average's choice that make the most money. Sometimes they get it right, as in the Harry Potter series, those (mostly) deserved their top rankings, for both the quality of the English and the story. Those lists, like the critical reviews, I usually ignore.
It is really a case of "researching" authors and stories for me, and finding samples if available. I will admit that with my purchase of an ebook I do miss the wandering round the bookshops, dipping into any title that looks attractive - or my favourite authors.
But it so much depends on which genres you like - I read about 75% science-fiction, 15% fantasy and the rest for the rest in fiction. Take a look at the author who recently won the Nobel Prize for literature, Kazuo Ishiguro, - he has good general reviews.
The books I enjoy most are the really inventive ones and those that make me think.
Dear Sister, I heartily suggest that you visit a local public library. There you will find an enormous collection of books about any subject you might choose. For example you mentioned that you had not seen books about the Iraq war. Go to the library, you will find at least a dozen of them about that subject. I have read at least four of them that concern the Iraq and the Afghan conflicts.
I would suggest that some of the better quality fiction is worth reading. There is an almost overwhelming number of new ones being published every week. Mostly low end but now and then one of them with some substance. I am more inclined to read educational and instructional books. Those books would be appropriate for your students because the general idea of high school is to learn. from teachers and books, not just the catechisms.
I will describe elsewhere the marvelously interesting and informative book: Everybody Lies. by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz. Sub title; Big Data, new data, and what the internet can tell us about who we really are. The author is not some twitter possessed kook. He has a Phi Beta Kappa degree from Stanford and a PHD degree from Harvard. He is actually an economist who has worked for Google and a few other avant- garde places. The book is about a whole new way of studying the mind....an unprecedented peek into people's psyches. Endlessly fascinating stuff. The Author is another of those incredibly smart Jews..... he does not mention religion very much except in a statistical way. This would be a treasure trove for your students.
If you want to get some information and infographics on the top ten banned (and challenged) books in the US, go here This is the American Library Association site http://www.ala.org
Sister if you are who and what you say you are then I am in favor of having you as an honorary member of this rather unique group of people who exchange ideas, comments, points of view, humor, and who care rather much about one another. What you need to do is just join in the fun and exchanges of information without preaching to us.
You might be pleased to know that one of our members who is held with the greatest respect and highest esteem, is a Doctor of Theology. She is a christian who lives in a country where it is dangerous to practice Christianity. We have another Christian who has been a long term member of this sometimes bawdy group. We like him and will defend him right down the line. So you see we are not the people that are as iniquitous as the hard shell and completely ignorant people of the bible belt ( and misinformed Catholics) believe us to be. Hang around this place if you can....and learn that we are just as moral and supportive of our fellow man as any of the religious zealots who so quickly and ignorantly consign us to the circles of hell.
P.S. We tend to read a lot of books.