Gay and Lesbian Rabbis, OK.

[AnimatedDirt]

Jewish movement in Israel OKs gay rabbis

Seems some are moving forward.

[Tank]

Definitely a move in the right direction.

[Amicale]

It's a good step forward, I agree. 

I can't help but wonder, though. With the vast majority of the verses condemning homosexual acts coming from the Torah/OT, will gay and lesbian rabbis feel obliged to teach these verses to their congregants anyhow, or will they feel more inclined to adopt a more liberal form of Judaism, and de-emphasize these verses?

[Sweetdeath]

Hm.. Wonder how many Ministers and Revernds are closet homosexuals, seeking out god to try to "fix" themselves.

People should just be kind people and be who they are without religion.

[Amicale]

Hm.. Wonder how many Ministers and Revernds are closet homosexuals, seeking out god to try to "fix" themselves.

People should just be kind people and be who they are without religion.

For that matter, I'd be happy to settle for people being kind people, and being who they are, WITH religion. So many folks in religious communities seem to insist on living dishonestly in order to stifle themselves.

[Guardian85]

Looks like the jews are pulling ahead in one category of tolerance.
Gonna have to keep an eye on this situation.

[OldGit]

Well, it's one strand of the religion, and a conservative one, at that.  Good.  But there are still all the various Orthodox groups, I'm afraid.

[Ali]

It's a good step forward, I agree. 

I can't help but wonder, though. With the vast majority of the verses condemning homosexual acts coming from the Torah/OT, will gay and lesbian rabbis feel obliged to teach these verses to their congregants anyhow, or will they feel more inclined to adopt a more liberal form of Judaism, and de-emphasize these verses?

My guess is that it would probably depend on the congregation, and that gay rabbis would be more likely to gravitate towards more gay friendly congregation.  My take on Conservative Jewish services (having been to many since Hubby's family is CJ) is that each day they take the Torah and read part of it aloud (actually, it's sung) and they don't skip around or choose which section to read.  They just read it straight through, finish it on one of the holidays (can't remember the name) and then start over again at the beginning.  So, that section will be read every time it comes up.  Now, in the US, they sing it in Hebrew in Conservative synogogues, and most people's Hebrew is less than fluent, so they might not even pick up on it.  In Israel, they would be able to understand the Hebrew well enough, but I don't know how closely most people are listening.  That sounds mean, but you have to keep in mind that Jewish services just aren't like Christian services.  They last for hours, and people come and go as they need to, talk amongst themselves, pass out candy to the children, all sorts of stuff other than just sitting there listening, which makes sense because it would be intolerable to sit and listen for like 4 hours at a go without breaking.  Then eventually the rabbi gives a sermon, something uplifting, and then everybody goes and eats kaddash which involves bagels and cream cheese blintzes.  I don't think that the rabbi in my in laws congregation ever really focuses on homosexuality, because one time they had a guest rabbi who actually did speak out against homosexuality, and it was a big scandal and everyone was appalled and even I (non-Jewish non-member of the congregation) heard about it from multiple people who were completely outraged by it.  Which brings me to my second observation about Judaism, which is that it seems to me that unlike Christians, they know exactly what their holy book says about homosexuality, and they generally take what the Torah says pretty seruoiously, but in this particular area, they seem to not care.  I.e. I've never met a CJ that was homophobic or that would condone discrimination against homosexuals, even from their own pulpit (if you call it a pulpit.) 

[rainbowcat212]

That's a step in the right direction. I'm glad to see that some religions are become more accepting.

[TheWalkingContradiction]

I am not an expert on this topic--and I certainly don't pretend to be.  But as I understand it through things I have read and podcasts I have listened to, the translation of certain ancient words have been called into question.  Many rabbis say that it is simply modern convention to translate them as "homosexual" even though the modern concept/construct of Western homosexuality did not exist in Biblical times.  Sexual practices were diverse, and we know of same sex relations for a variety of reasons in many ancient cultures, some of which accepted parts of it and some of which did not.  (I recall that a scholar of ancient Egypt once said that we know sex between males was widespread in that culture because there were specific religious texts warning against it.)

On a less religious note...  Israel is very progressive regarding gay issues.  Tel Aviv was recently named the world's best gay travel destination, beating New York, Toronto and London: http://www.haaretz.com/travel-in-israel/tel-aviv-declared-world-s-best-gay-travel-destination-1.406699  Tel Aviv also has a world-famous gay pride parade and gay beach.  The Israeli government is not shy about promoting gay tourism, either.  

It is worth noting, though, that Tel Aviv is Tel Aviv, a very left-leaning city.  Jerusalem and much of the rest of the country, on the other hand, are very conservative.  The ultra-Othodox in Jerusalem have been known to interfere with that city's parade and try to spoil it.  Tel Aviv is what New York and San Francisco once were in the U.S., and I have been told by gay Israelis that it is the dream of every gay kid in Israel to move to Tel Aviv.

It is also only fair to mention that Israel has been accused of "pinkwashing."  In other words, pro-Palestinian groups say that Israel conceals continued human rights violations by showcasing Israeli gay life as a sign of Israel's high regard for human rights and progressive outlook.  

I also happen to know that some gay couples in Israel involve a Jewish Israeli and a Palestinian, although this is not the norm.  Still, knowing that people can get beyond politics and find love makes me happy.

Currently, 61% of Israelis support same-sex marriage, one of the highest percentages for such support in the world.  (As the secular and reform Judaism population/liberal Arab population continues to grow smaller because of small families while the ultra-Orthodox Jewish and Fundamentalist Muslim population continues to have many children, this may change.)  

All Jewish Israelis, women as well as men, must serve in the military--although the ultra-Orthodox are usually exempt on religious grounds.  Service is voluntary for Christian and Muslim Arabs.  There is no exemption for gay people as there is in some other countries, though.  Gays serve openly in the military (even though some report harassment and one gay Israeli has told me personally about problems he has had).  Since 1993 such harrassment has been officially illegal, and one cannot discriminate against gays in terms of recruitment, military promotion, or other issues.  Israeli soldiers are also allowed to participate in gay pride parades.

If there are any Israelis or people who know Israelis here, I would love to know your ideas on all this.  Also, please tell me if I got anything wrong.

[markmcdaniel]

Unfortunately, the orthodox are a very powerful force in Israel.

[TheWalkingContradiction]

Unfortunately, the orthodox are a very powerful force in Israel.

...and growing stronger, from what I hear.