How Do We Know Something Is True?

[Hector Valdez]

"Truth, that deuce that speaks before the noose, forsooth. How uncouth." -- Me.

[Asmodean]

The meaning of knowing the truth hinges as much on the meaning of knowing as it does on the meaning of truth. Wise men know cautiously.

[Hector Valdez]

Wait. So meaning and knowing can't be known? Oh god, we're fucked. 

[Asmodean]

Wait. So meaning and knowing can't be known? Oh god, we're fucked. 

Nope. Not at all what I said.

[Hector Valdez]

I suppose this is one of those times when a [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tag would have been beneficial. 

[En_Route]

My inclination relative to this topic commences with the understanding that through various phases of my development I donned an absolute certain mindset about some issues. Experience, however, has all but completely stamped out that mentality. The only portion that still exists is that I am certain that I cannot be certain about anything.

I, in my finite mind, could not possibly KNOW the truth. I often wonder what life would be like if I could obtain absolute truth in its purest form. Seems to me it is not life's intention for truth to be within our grasp. The mystery is what keeps us searching. The search is what is so thrilling. Following is what I consider to be one of the most incisive declarations regarding truth:

Truth is a pathless land'. Man cannot come to it through any organization, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection. Man has built in himself images as a fence of security – religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs.
Krishnamurti  

Your thoughts?

The idea that life has an intention is an empty abstraction, with respect. If the truth is ungraspable, then the search is futile from the start and you might be better off devoting your energies elsewhere.

[Truthseeker]

The idea that life has an intention is an empty abstraction, with respect. If the truth is ungraspable, then the search is futile from the start and you might be better off devoting your energies elsewhere.

This is actually the central message of my post.  Even though the truth may be "ungraspable", the search can be (has been) quite fulfilling and enlightening.  I may want to arrive in Alaska but have no idea how to get there.  Assuming all I know is the general direction sans any type of guide to get me there I may never arrive.  That does not mean, however, that the "search is futile".  My travel experiences could (will most likely) lend to events that enrich my life.

[history_geek]

The idea that life has an intention is an empty abstraction, with respect. If the truth is ungraspable, then the search is futile from the start and you might be better off devoting your energies elsewhere.

This is actually the central message of my post.  Even though the truth may be "ungraspable", the search can be (has been) quite fulfilling and enlightening.  I may want to arrive in Alaska but have no idea how to get there.  Assuming all I know is the general direction sans any type of guide to get me there I may never arrive.  That does not mean, however, that the "search is futile".  My travel experiences could (will most likely) lend to events that enrich my life.

I've always liked this quote from The Last Samurai:

The perfect blossom is a rare thing. You could spend your life looking for one, and it would not be a wasted life

[Truthseeker]

The perfect blossom is a rare thing. You could spend your life looking for one, and it would not be a wasted life

Precisely HG!

[En_Route]

The idea that life has an intention is an empty abstraction, with respect. If the truth is ungraspable, then the search is futile from the start and you might be better off devoting your energies elsewhere.

This is actually the central message of my post.  Even though the truth may be "ungraspable", the search can be (has been) quite fulfilling and enlightening.  I may want to arrive in Alaska but have no idea how to get there.  Assuming all I know is the general direction sans any type of guide to get me there I may never arrive.  That does not mean, however, that the "search is futile".  My travel experiences could (will most likely) lend to events that enrich my life.

Setting off for Alaska knowing you can never get there is a slightly different matter. I'm also not sure what "Truth" it is that you are seeking and what you would do with it if you ever did find it. Again truth is not an abstraction or some mystical holy grail waiting to be uncovered (or secreted eternally from human gaze in your version)- it is a quality attributable to observations about the world which are either true or not-true.

[Truthseeker]

Setting off for Alaska knowing you can never get there is a slightly different matter. I'm also not sure what "Truth" it is that you are seeking and what you would do with it if you ever did find it. Again truth is not an abstraction or some mystical holy grail waiting to be uncovered (or secreted eternally from human gaze in your version)- it is a quality attributable to observations about the world which are either true or not-true.

Whether we agree here or not is immaterial.  My point rests is the fact that the search, regardless if the object is found or not will be quite fulfilling and meaningful.  If your only aim is to find the object then I suppose the search would be futile - a sad commentary to say the least.  But, again, if you read my post you will find that the central message is more relative to the search itself.  My personal objective has always been to don an awarness of the elements around me as I make this journey.  In this instance the search will not be futile, but enriching.

[En_Route]

Setting off for Alaska knowing you can never get there is a slightly different matter. I'm also not sure what "Truth" it is that you are seeking and what you would do with it if you ever did find it. Again truth is not an abstraction or some mystical holy grail waiting to be uncovered (or secreted eternally from human gaze in your version)- it is a quality attributable to observations about the world which are either true or not-true.

Whether we agree here or not is immaterial.  My point rests is the fact that the search, regardless if the object is found or not will be quite fulfilling and meaningful.  If your only aim is to find the object then I suppose the search would be futile - a sad commentary to say the least.  But, again, if you read my post you will find that the central message is more relative to the search itself.  My personal objective has always been to don an awarness of the elements around me as I make this journey.  In this instance the search will not be futile, but enriching.

Searching for something you can't find isn't searching stricto sensu. And until you've "searched" in this rather rarefied sense you've no way of knowing whether or not the exercise will be fulfilling or enriching. It could turn out be a forlorn cul-de-sac and in your old age you might look back ruefully to those wasted years spent chasing chimera and wallowing in solipsistic new-agery.

[Truthseeker]

Searching for something you can't find isn't searching stricto sensu. And until you've "searched" in this rather rarefied sense you've no way of knowing whether or not the exercise will be fulfilling or enriching. It could turn out be a forlorn cul-de-sac and in your old age you might look back ruefully to those wasted years spent chasing chimera and wallowing in solipsistic new-agery.

Wow!  All I can say here is that I vehemently disagree with every single sentence.  This last post of your's says to me that you and I are to far apart on this issue for any type of coming together.  No big deal.  What a boring place the world would be if we all agreed and saw things the same way.  Thanks for you perspective. 

[The Magic Pudding]

Re: How Do We Know Something Is True?

Your betters will tell you.

[Siz]

Re: How Do We Know Something Is True?

Your betters will tell you.

When I want your opinion I'll give it to you!