Author Topic: Question for Theists  (Read 2086 times)

Ateo

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Question for Theists
« on: January 13, 2012, 08:44:51 PM »

I have a question for theists.

It is a given that god is jealous,  violent in his wrath,  has decreed  that there shall be no other god(s) before Me,  has passed judgement that unbelievers should be killed, etc. etc.
 
Question:

Why doesn't the christian god kill Muhammad? He would like us to kill his followers. He will kill any number of non-believers, why not one pretender to the throne?
 
Increase your flock from 2.1 billion to 3.6 billion, 71 percent increase over night. What's wrong with this plan?
"Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich"

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Crocoduck

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 12:24:32 AM »

I have a question for theists.

It is a given that god is jealous,  violent in his wrath,  has decreed  that there shall be no other god(s) before Me,  has passed judgement that unbelievers should be killed, etc. etc.
 
Question:

Why doesn't the christian god kill Muhammad? He would like us to kill his followers. He will kill any number of non-believers, why not one pretender to the throne?
 
Increase your flock from 2.1 billion to 3.6 billion, 71 percent increase over night. What's wrong with this plan?
I know you posed your question to theists although it really seems aimed at Christians in particular. I'm no longer either however I have to ask, do you really think that Christians believe Muhammad is alive? Muslim don't even believe Muhammad is alive, do you?

Personally I think this is a really weak question/argument and not one anyone will take seriously because I don't think you'll find it represents what anyone believes.


As we all know, the miracle of fishes and loaves is only scientifically explainable through the medium of casseroles
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Guardian85

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 04:12:51 AM »
While I think the OP is a little poorly formulated, I see where he is going and want to enjoy the ride.

The question is, if I get it rght:

If the god of the bible (GOB) is as vengeful, violent and jealous as he is portrayed in that annoying bestseller, why has he simply not destroyed the other pretenders to his rule?

If he saw the rise of Muhammad in the 5th century, why not do a little lightning action?

Why not drop a meteor on L.R Hubbard?

Basically, if GOB is so powerful and willing to use that power, why hasn't he brought it to bear on the competition?


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The Magic Pudding

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 04:27:38 AM »
Test of faith
Mysterious ways
Character building
The god of the people who behead the disrespectful was so cute as a bub, can't bear to smite his minions.  Let him go a few more millennia, he'll settle down.  We all go through a smitey stage.


God talk is purple, for now anyway.

Crocoduck

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 04:54:13 AM »
While I think the OP is a little poorly formulated, I see where he is going and want to enjoy the ride.

The question is, if I get it rght:

If the god of the bible (GOB) is as vengeful, violent and jealous as he is portrayed in that annoying bestseller, why has he simply not destroyed the other pretenders to his rule?

If he saw the rise of Muhammad in the 5th century, why not do a little lightning action?

Why not drop a meteor on L.R Hubbard?

Basically, if GOB is so powerful and willing to use that power, why hasn't he brought it to bear on the competition?

I guess when you restate it like that it is a more valid question. The OP question just reminded me of the old question Christians like to ask "If atheists don't believe in God why do they hate him so much?" Just more or less a strawman.

Test of faith
Mysterious ways
Character building
The god of the people who behead the disrespectful was so cute as a bub, can't bear to smite his minions.  Let him go a few more millennia, he'll settle down.  We all go through a smitey stage.


God talk is purple, for now anyway.

I think you forgot the classic

Free Will
As we all know, the miracle of fishes and loaves is only scientifically explainable through the medium of casseroles
Dobermonster
However some of the jumped up jackasses do need a damn good kicking. Not that they will respond to the kicking but just to show they can be kicked
Some dude in a Tank

The Magic Pudding

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 06:42:27 AM »
The OP question just reminded me of the old question Christians like to ask "If atheists don't believe in God why do they hate him so much?" Just more or less a strawman.

I hate him.
I hate that we created him,
it is too often him.
We created him as a sky.
We created him too low.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:08:35 PM by The Magic Pudding »

Ateo

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 07:26:10 AM »
While I think the OP is a little poorly formulated, I see where he is going and want to enjoy the ride.

The question is, if I get it right:

If the god of the bible (GOB) is as vengeful, violent and jealous as he is portrayed in that annoying bestseller, why has he simply not destroyed the other pretenders to his rule?

If he saw the rise of Muhammad in the 5th century, why not do a little lightning action?

Why not drop a meteor on L.R Hubbard?

Basically, if GOB is so powerful and willing to use that power, why hasn't he brought it to bear on the competition?

Thanks for the help with that question Guardian, your summation is what I was trying to say. It was late and I wanted to get it into the forum before bed. With a few responses, I'll add a bit.

I don't hate god and I don't think atheists in general do either. How can you hate a mythical character? You can take issue with what he  supposedly says or does, you can oppose what he represents and his goals, but he's like the sheriff of Nottingham, a story book character (who ultimately loses).

Free will. I certainly don't want to start another thread, so my main thought about free will is, I think it's nice that birds, animals and insects (?) have free thought and free will along with us. However, the fact that they have it too, doesn't make me feel special.
"Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich"

"Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt."

Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 07:42:07 PM »

I have a question for theists.

It is a given that god is jealous,  violent in his wrath,  has decreed  that there shall be no other god(s) before Me,  has passed judgement that unbelievers should be killed, etc. etc.
 
Question:

Why doesn't the christian god kill Muhammad? He would like us to kill his followers. He will kill any number of non-believers, why not one pretender to the throne?
 
Increase your flock from 2.1 billion to 3.6 billion, 71 percent increase over night. What's wrong with this plan?

My opinion: The "god is wrathful" paradigm doesn't apply to Christians any longer.  That was an Old Testament concept of God, and Jesus began to move us away from that.  The trend in Christianity was supposed to be toward loving one another and conceiving of God as love.  But preachers and priests found that they could control their flock a little better by throwing in some wrath from the OT.  So the movement got corrupted. God appears to be willing to let the whole thing play out until it gets totally out of control, then Jesus returns to straighten it all out. That's my take on it, and it may be worth exactly what you paid for it. 

Guardian85

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 08:10:53 AM »
Well, at least the price is right...



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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 10:13:52 AM »
Mysterious ways. That sums it up as far as theists go.
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Too Few Lions

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 03:42:22 PM »
I guess a Muslim would argue that Mohammed was the greatest prophet of that biblical god so why would said god want to destroy him?  According to Muslims they're bestest buddies. Muslims believe that Christians and Jews had strayed from Yahweh's true teaching, so he sent the archangel Gabriel with a new set of messages to give to Mohammed, just like Christians believe that Yahweh sent Jesus into the world to replace the old teachings of Judaism.

Of course it's utter crock, but no more so than the Christian version of things. Both the Christian and Muslim gods are later remodelling of the Jewish god Yahweh. I guess you could just as validly ask the same OP about why didn't Yahweh kill Jesus? if looking at things from a Jewish point of view. It would have meant a lot less suffering for the Jews over the past 2000 years.

But I guess from a Christian point of view, their god did take his eye off the ball a bit in the 7th century. I think he was too busy gleefully watching his followers persecute and murder all the heretics and pagans in Europe.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 03:55:44 PM by Too Few Lions »

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 06:07:45 PM »
Mysterious ways. That sums it up as far as theists go.

That would be the best answer to put in any serious test or exam. If "goddidit" isn't satisfactory, then "god works in mysterious ways" is.

;D

I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Ateo

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 07:18:59 AM »


My opinion: The "god is wrathful" paradigm doesn't apply to Christians any longer.  That was an Old Testament concept of God, and Jesus began to move us away from that."

The christian fundamentalists and cherry pickers apparently opted out of that plan. Since the bible wasn't put together till 325 AD, why didn't the bishops at the council of Nicaea follow jesus' lead and leave the old testament out? Also, why did they wait till 381 to make jesus a god and introduce the holy ghost?




 "The trend in Christianity was supposed to be toward loving one another and conceiving of God as love .....God appears to be willing to let the whole thing play out until it gets totally out of control, then Jesus returns to straighten it all out."  


That covers the past, present and future. When did the love trend start, they were pretty busy for 640 +/- years with all the torture and killing required to keep the inquisition going and it lasted into the 1940's?  They weren't exactly friendly or approachable prior to the inquisition either.

This isn't mine, but it's timely. What if instead of jesus coming back Elvis came back.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 07:24:18 AM by Ateo »
"Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich"

"Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt."

statichaos

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 04:32:19 PM »
Are you talking about theists in general or only Christians?

Asherah

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Re: Question for Theists
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 06:59:36 PM »
Muslims trace their origin back to Ishmael. That's the son that Abraham had with his wife, Sarai's, handmaiden, Hagaar. In Genesis 16:10 the angle of the Lord told Hagaar that he would greatly multiply her seed. Thus, the decendants of Ishmael are the result of God keeping his promise to bless Ishmael and make him into a great nation (Gen. 21:18).
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