Theists, how do you explain natural evil and bad design?

[Tristan Jay]

On our 'made in His image' point...what exactly would you consider a design flaw that this crazy hypocrite jerk fucked up?  It must be a doosie.

There is no one thing that makes it a doosie, really.  It's all the little things that pile up.  It wasn't just the straw that broke the camel's back, it was all the other stupid stuff, too.  I'll put some stuff forward, but I'm sure other people here can throw out a few things as well.  I'll come back to this, it just takes a lot of time and energy to organize my thoughts.  I'll leave you with that to start with, my brain's functional capacity is unacceptable.  If only I could be more reasonable.  If I had better resources and could participate more effectively in this world, and try to be productive?  My best response to a familiar, infuriating! exchange:

Q: Why doesn't God, with is infinite capacity, help us out more?  Why doesn't he end this suffering, that injustice, ect.
Response Q:  Why don't I do it, then?
A: Because, I'm having difficulty enough helping myself to survive!  What resources do I drain from others trying to do that?  Therefore, why doesn't he fix me when I ask, so that I can do the job that he won't bother with?  Why doesn't he empower me with the strength and knowledge?

He can't complain that I hate him.  He designed me this way.  I don't want to be this way.  He could so easily change it.  Yet he does not.  I feel sympathy for the Pharaoh, whose heart he hardened.  Did the Pharaoh choose to be this way, for the benefit of God's example?  What would he think, if he knew God hardened his heart?  In light of the promise that we are supposed to have free will?  I am not clay, I am a living being, and I don't like being manipulated.  I don't want him to mold me, I don't even want to be an attractive looking vessel, I just want to function and survive and be left alone.  I want peace and quiet.  I want my brain to be quieted from the storm of thoughts I can't ignore and leaves me too exhausted to do basic functional stuff.

And if he doesn't bother to help me?  Then it's all been my own effort, and he deserves no credit.  And I'm essentially fighting a bad design upstream against the will of a jerk who wants me this way.  A bad design, and a bad designer.

This is just the start of what's wrong.  It's not the only thing by far.  There's plenty of other, less personal stuff.  Like I said, I'll come back to discuss it more.

Please understand, though, that I don't feel hostility toward people who are religious.  I am glad that you take comfort in your spiritual beliefs, and hope your spiritual path is a rewarding one for you.

[Tank]

Inside-out retina would be a good start. Particularly as molluscs all have it the right way round so they don't have a blind spot.

Does not the neck serve the purpose reducing the blind spot?  We don't live in a "3d" world of water.  It's not our "home".  If evolution has weeded out the good and the bad, it suggests that reducing blind spots are traits associated with those that are hunted rather than the hunter or top of the food chain.  I'm not certain on this so I could be wrong...it just seems to me.

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to have 360 degree vision?  What kind of body would that make for.  What would our heads look like that IMPROVE upon the evolved condition we are at now?

Binocular vision and good slimeware overcome the issue of the blindspot. However the inverted retina in mammals is substandard compared to that of 'correct' construction of the octopus world.

See also The Laryngeal Nerve of the Giraffe is Proof of Natural Selection

Testicals that don't need to hang out in the airstream to keep cool to produce sperm would be a good idea. Fish don't have this problem.

The ability to synthasize vitamin C would be useful. But of course that 'designer' fucked up there with a broken gene that we all have but can't use.

The curved spine botched together to get our front limbs off the ground combined with the fact that it contains the main communications bundle of the body inside it.

Naked mole rats don't get cancer. I suppose that makes up for being f***ing ugly. But then they live in the dark so that's alright.

Mortality would be another small design flaw,

The human is the only member of the great apes without a penis bone. I mean WTF! Thanks God!

[AnimatedDirt]

Testicals that don't need to hang out in the airstream to keep cool to produce sperm would be a good idea. Fish don't have this problem.

We don't live in the ocean where it is hardly the temperature that testicles cease to produce sperm...isn't that the reason they need cooling?  I'm not certain.

The ability to synthasize vitamin C would be useful. But of course that 'designer' fucked up there with a broken gene that we all have but can't use.

Apparently that particular "broken" gene is not detrimental to the species.  Isn't vitamin C pretty abundant in what humans eat?  Wouldn't it be therefore natural to have adapted to this abundance?  If it were reversed, one might think the argument would be; Why make a gene that produces vitamin C when vitamin C is so plentiful...did God not know vitamin C was plentiful and therefore didn't realize this making a redundant body function?

The curved spine botched together to get our front limbs off the ground combined with the fact that it contains the main communications bundle of the body inside it.

Botched together?  Where would you place the main communications bundle if not surrounded by bone?  Let's think about the design of buildings and their placement of communications cables...has man not learned something better as of yet where better to run the lines?

Naked mole rats don't get cancer. I suppose that makes up for being f***ing ugly. But then they live in the dark so that's alright.

Naked mole rats...I would take cancer as a human over being a naked mole rat.  Maybe you would choose to be a naked mole rat instead?

Mortality would be another small design flaw,

Wait...isn't there another thread here on HAF where the discussion is about living forever...??  It seems to me that the bulk of the like-minded as rational as rational can be, seem to not want this.

The human is the only member of the great apes without a penis bone. I mean WTF! Thanks God!

So you're saying a bone within your pecker is a better design?  A perpetual boner is what you want?  You've seen the ape penis right?

[Sweetdeath]

Don't be mean to.naked mole rats. I find them adorable.
And I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. My grandfather is literally being eaten away by stomach cancer... It's a terrible sight.

[AnimatedDirt]

Don't be mean to.naked mole rats. I find them adorable.
And I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. My grandfather is literally being eaten away by stomach cancer... It's a terrible sight.

In saying I'd rather be a human with cancer than a naked mole rat with no cancer is being mean?  Was that aimed at me?  I'm not sure.  I don't wish cancer on anyone either.  I've had (and have) my fair share of cancer within my family and friends.  It is a terrible sight.

[Sweetdeath]

Don't be mean to.naked mole rats. I find them adorable.
And I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. My grandfather is literally being eaten away by stomach cancer... It's a terrible sight.

In saying I'd rather be a human with cancer than a naked mole rat with no cancer is being mean?  Was that aimed at me?  I'm not sure.  I don't wish cancer on anyone either.  I've had (and have) my fair share of cancer within my family and friends.  It is a terrible sight.

Wasn't aimed at you. Calm down Ansty mc firepants. XP

[Heisenberg]

How about afflictions that resulted from humans evolving to walk on four legs, then all of a sudden starting to walk upright. Things like hemorrhoids and scoliosis? That sounds like pretty poor design.

[Genericguy]

Ok... Animated. Listen to yourself. No person on earth should disagree with the mole rat example. Tank was not asking you to choose the better species. He was suggesting that a better design for humans would include those specific traits.

[AnimatedDirt]

Ok... Animated. Listen to yourself. No person on earth should disagree with the mole rat example. Tank was not asking you to choose the better species. He was suggesting that a better design for humans would include those specific traits.

When a person says that there is flaw in a certain design, then that person should have a solution for the design flaw otherwise there is no REAL flaw if there isn't a better design available.  The fact that the design works speaks for itself.  My point is simply to say "No person on earth should disagree with the mole rat example." says nothing.  It's like making the claim; Rock caves don't have termite problems. to somehow discredit the manner in which we build homes today.  Sure, make every home out of rock and you eliminate the termite problem.   Yet to the mind of the educated TODAY, wood is still used...

[Genericguy]

When a person says that there is flaw in a certain design, then that person should have a solution for the design flaw otherwise there is no REAL flaw if there isn't a better design available.

Your god is omnipotent. He can do ANYTHING, including giving us a gene (like the mole rats have) that prevents cancer.

Human + cancer = bad.
Human - cancer = good.

It's not that difficult.

[AnimatedDirt]

Your god is omnipotent. He can do ANYTHING, including giving us a gene (like the mole rats have) that prevents cancer.

Human + cancer = bad.
Human - cancer = good.

It's not that difficult.

And you know it's that simple through...?

[Genericguy]

Are you saying god is not omnipotent?

You know you can say "mysterious ways" at any time. 

[AnimatedDirt]

Are you saying god is not omnipotent?

You know you can say "mysterious ways" at any time. 

Wait...are you putting words in my mouth now?  Are you not more intelligent than I to assertain what exactly I'm asking, but instead jump to a conclusion on what you believe my answer to be for the reason rat moles may or may not be resistant to cancer?

[Genericguy]

I need to know if you think your god is omnipotent in order to answer your question.

[AnimatedDirt]

I need to know if you think your god is omnipotent in order to answer your question.

The real question is on what ground do you base that god's omnipotence is the simple answer as in simply adding a gene?

Do you know that gene?  Do you know how to add genes to our DNA?  Do you know what is involved in doing so?  Do you know that the gene is simply there and not a result of something else?