Are you really an atheist?

[The Magic Pudding]

When I was a kid it was my understanding that to find Jesus you had to want to, you had to read the bible wanting to find him.  You were told it isn't easy, you had try try try, get a mantra going, I want to believe, want to, want to want to.  Gawen's 12 step thread has this line "When you think you feel good, you look bad."  Those that were intoxicated by belief didn't look good to me.  There's the many faiths but this is the right one thing, it's inherent truth wasn't evident but I was supposed to convince myself it was.  I understood why people desired a protector and that they could delude themselves in many ways.  You can't create truth, faith for me was an invitation to deny truth, what a dangerous thing.

[Crow]

Gawen's 12 step thread has this line "When you think you feel good, you look bad."  Those that were intoxicated by belief didn't look good to me.

I have to agree with that wholeheartedly even people praying looks deranged to me. Oh and this Baptizia pt2 (most likely you have seen it before) but that is beyond deranged.

[xSilverPhinx]

Gawen's 12 step thread has this line "When you think you feel good, you look bad."  Those that were intoxicated by belief didn't look good to me.

I have to agree with that wholeheartedly even people praying looks deranged to me. Oh and this Baptizia pt2 (most likely you have seen it before) but that is beyond deranged.

LOL I think it's amusing. More than slightly odd would be church-goers speaking in tongues IMO. 

[Egor]

When I was a kid it was my understanding that to find Jesus you had to want to, you had to read the bible wanting to find him.  You were told it isn't easy, you had try try try, get a mantra going, I want to believe, want to, want to want to.  Gawen's 12 step thread has this line "When you think you feel good, you look bad."  Those that were intoxicated by belief didn't look good to me.  There's the many faiths but this is the right one thing, it's inherent truth wasn't evident but I was supposed to convince myself it was.  I understood why people desired a protector and that they could delude themselves in many ways.  You can't create truth, faith for me was an invitation to deny truth, what a dangerous thing.

How do you know what the truth is? You say faith was an invitation to deny truth, so what is the truth? If God is possible, and if so many people smart and dumb believe in Him, and there are many logical arguments and thought experiments that seem to make sense, and these have been developed over thousands of years, by people like Plato, Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle, Spinoza, Berkeley, Descartes, the influence of Jesus Christ, and on and on, what pray tell then is the truth that you know? That there is no God? That none of these people have convinced you enough?

Why is it so hard to admit you simply want to be an atheist? I want to be a Christian; I admit it. That's why I am one. Isn't the truth—the truth—that you simply hope there is no God and you can live your life as if there weren't?

I have read every post since my last post, and I don't see any that need my comments, per se, but if someone has asked me a question and I missed it. Please ask again. I just figure most replies are made not looking for a response.

[Egor]

LOL I think it's amusing. More than slightly odd would be church-goers speaking in tongues IMO. 

When I was 11, I went up to the front of a Pentecostal church one evening in Canada, and they laid hands on me and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit. A feeling came over me, and I began to speak in tongues uncontrollably. Even during my twenties when I was pretty much fallen away, I would never dare speak in tongues. There was something too sacred about it, something too strange and frightening.

Today, I don't speak in tongues. I'm not afraid of it, but I choose to practice other spiritual gifts that God has given me. It never proved to me that there was a God. I simply do not understand it. The greatest proof of God for me comes from trusting an authority. It is the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, because I agree with C.S. Lewis when he says either Jesus was evil or insane, or he was truly the Son of God. There is no way Jesus was evil, and if he was insane, given his influence on and reverence from the world, then there is no such thing as sanity.

Some people go crazy with speaking in tongues, and I'm not sure it does much good. St. Paul didn't seem to think it was too important even back in his day. I can see why: It just doesn't seem to accomplish much.

Not trying to preach here; just thought I share my thoughts on speaking in tongues since you brought it up.

[keithpenrod]

I was wondering if anyone in this forum considers God to be an impossibility? I understand atheist do not believe God exists, but do you believe God never existed and never will exist?

Microphone to you...

I wouldn't say that I consider god to be an "impossibility".  I do not believe that the Christian god exists, and I am not familiar enough with any other gods (other than the Greek gods, which I can say with certainty do not exist) to be confident in declaring their non-existence. 

If a god did exist, though, I would expect that it would be one that did not interfere with natural laws (physics, biology, etc) in a way that would make it conspicuous.  Perhaps to know god simply means to understand all of the laws of nature. 

[Sweetdeath]

What exactly is speaking in tongues and how is it useful in today's world? o_o I am actually curious.

[The Magic Pudding]

How do you know what the truth is? You say faith was an invitation to deny truth, so what is the truth? If God is possible, and if so many people smart and dumb believe in Him, and there are many logical arguments and thought experiments that seem to make sense, and these have been developed over thousands of years, by people like Plato, Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle, Spinoza, Berkeley, Descartes, the influence of Jesus Christ, and on and on, what pray tell then is the truth that you know? That there is no God? That none of these people have convinced you enough?

I've seen many defences of god, they are all flawed, there's always some obvious leap made, it often looks dishonest to me but I think it's just a delusional faith thing, I sometimes give them the benefit of doubt anyway.  Delusion is better than dishonesty isn't it?

Why is it so hard to admit you simply want to be an atheist? I want to be a Christian; I admit it. That's why I am one. Isn't the truth—the truth—that you simply hope there is no God and you can live your life as if there weren't?

I don't want to be an atheist, I don't want there to be no god.
I want to live forever in paradise, in a wonderful state of existence I can't even begin to imagine, I'm not ungrateful by nature, I don't like grovelling but I could learn.
But this is a bias, if you have a bias you should guard against it leading you to a wrong conclusion, it is the sensible thing to do.
This isn't what the faithful would have me do, they want me to try to believe stories written by men.
Similar stories written are considered silly, wicked even, but I can trust these guys even though they gain power and wealth be propagating the faith.
I don't live the life of sin either, decades in a monogamous relationship, you don't even have to threaten me with hell, I behave well because I want to.

[OldGit]

I agree with C.S. Lewis when he says either Jesus was evil or insane, or he was truly the Son of God.

It's a bit older than that - the basic idea goes back at least to St. Augustine of Hippo.  It's naïve and facile - many prophets and doomsayers are neither evil nor technically insane, merely sincere but deluded.

IF Jesus made all the claims now attributed to him - and that's a big if - he was probably just another deluded wandering preacher in the hothouse atmosphere of religious obsession that prevailed in that time and place.

How's about I claim that all christians are either evil or insane, since their beliefs clearly have no foundation in reality, and some of them suddenly start babbling and ranting in  meaningless gibberish?

[xm1]

Why is it so hard to admit you simply want to be an atheist? I want to be a Christian; I admit it. That's why I am one. Isn't the truth—the truth—that you simply hope there is no God and you can live your life as if there weren't?

I have read every post since my last post, and I don't see any that need my comments, per se, but if someone has asked me a question and I missed it. Please ask again. I just figure most replies are made not looking for a response.

Then you clearly ignored mine, it asked you a question, and it addressed your ignorant suggestion that i just want to be atheist.  The statement is turning your post troll.

Atheist is what I arrived at after reviewing a life that was dedicated to christ and recognizing it for a lie.  Hardly something that was wanted.

[Whitney]

What exactly is speaking in tongues and how is it useful in today's world? o_o I am actually curious.

It has no actual purpose.

here  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqXHbPeJciI

don't say I didn't warn you.

[Whitney]

you know If I could just pick something to believe in and magically believe, wouldn't an earth based religion be lovely.  Something like what is on Avatar where everything is one together in harmony.

Just saying...if we are simply picking what we want to believe why not choose something fun?   Oh, that's right, people who care about facts can't just make themselves believe things simply because they are cool.

[Sandra Craft]

you know If I could just pick something to believe in and magically believe, wouldn't an earth based religion be lovely.  Something like what is on Avatar where everything is one together in harmony.

Just saying...if we are simply picking what we want to believe why not choose something fun?   Oh, that's right, people who care about facts can't just make themselves believe things simply because they are cool.

For me it's not a matter of wanting or not wanting to be an atheist -- it's a default position  based on no religion/supernatural/spiritual view of life making any sense to me.  I want to be Pagan, I would love to be an unconflicted earth-worshipper and I did try for quite a number of years when I was younger but that just ain't happening either.

[Crow]

When I was 11, I went up to the front of a Pentecostal church one evening in Canada, and they laid hands on me and prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit. A feeling came over me, and I began to speak in tongues uncontrollably. Even during my twenties when I was pretty much fallen away, I would never dare speak in tongues. There was something too sacred about it, something too strange and frightening.

Out of interest have you ever witnessed anybody outside of Pentecostalism speaking in tongues? Actually same question goes to anyone with a christian background.

[Whitney]

Out of interest have you ever witnessed anybody outside of Pentecostalism speaking in tongues? Actually same question goes to anyone with a christian background.

I've been many churches of various denominations yet have never seen anyone speaking in tongues in person.