Please present positive evidence for atheism

[Davin]

Well, since we, theists are frequently asked to provide evidence for our faith, i think the same has to be asked to atheists as well. So do you have any evidence to present, that makes a good case for atheism ?

Easy: there is no evidence for a god, theists just have faith (defined as strongly believing in things without evidence), so the case for not accepting that there is a god (atheism) is because there is no reason to even posite that there is a god.

If all the holy books were lost, and everyone forgot about religions altogether, how would humanity come to your conclusion of your version of god?

Because given that all science was forgotten, all scientific research/books/papers were lost, I can explain how people will come to the same conclusions on various theories (not all of them because I've not done enough research into all of them).

[Ultima22689]

Please present positive evidence that atheism is true. No bible bashing, but   rational , logical , compelling arguments, better atheist arguments than theist ones,  to explain our existence.

I think the more important question here is why you want to be convinced. I have the suspicion that this post is entirely self serving. I don’t think you really want to find truth I think you want to be given opportunities to exploit gaps or contradictions in the opposing argument. You see, a question like this, from a truly religious person is only fuel for their own religion. The more important question is what would it take for you to let go of your faith of the supernatural? How far out into the cosmos would we have to see? How small are the subatomic particles that we would have to detect before you could say, ok I’m ready to let go of my faith. Under a certain religious mindset no matter how much scientific evidence is presented to them they could easily say that god created the evidence, either to fool you or that whatever evidence science finds is evidence of gods full range of power to create the cosmos in ever smaller and ever larger degrees into infinity. If you take the counter to this argument a person fully committed to scientific explanation would look at evidence of god in this way as well. Any religious miracle, such as Jesus healing blindness, to the scientific mind would immediately be viewed with skepticism. A truly scientific mind would immediately want to know the biological or chemical cause and purpose of such an anomaly. On the surface this miracle appears to be magic, but to the scientific mind it’s another problem to be solved. So before I entertain this question, and give your argument any potential fuel. I’d like for you to explain you motives and convince me, that you are here out of genuine curiosity and are not just poking the bear.

Well, since we, theists are frequently asked to provide evidence for our faith, i think the same has to be asked to atheists as well. So do you have any evidence to present, that makes a good case for atheism ?

I want you to go disprove, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, The Abominable Snow Man, Goku and Galactus.

So let's start, in order to do that, you will likely have to scour the entire universe for at least Galactus, find remnants of Planet Vegeta for Goku in addition to seven mystical Dragon Balls, explore every nook and cranny of both the south and north pole as well as Antartica for both the Snow Man and Santa, probably Greenland and Canada as well or any other place that gets bad snow. As for the Tooth Fairy, I couldn't tell you where to begin, now GO!!

Sounds absurd right? Even if you had the means to explore the entire universe in your tiny lifetime, it would still be asburd to attempt to find any of this, for one, it all has come from humans who believe a few of these beings may be real. Despite all of their absurdity and any attempt to prove that they don't exist is even more absurd. Now you want us to provide evidence that a being who is omnipotent, source of "goodness" and supposedly defies logic and all the other silly contradictions applied to the abrahamic god?

I apologize if you find this offensive but that is even more absurd than trying to find Galactus, at least he doesn't claim to be omnipotent, the source of all good then creates evil while still claiming to be good and omnipotent. -_-

There is a reason the burden of proof always falls on those who are trying to prove a negative. You can prove that John Bunyan didn't exist by looking at every bit of substance that may or may not credit his origin but it would be ridiculous to do a manhunt for John Bunyan because when you don't find him on Earth, how do we know he is not in space? Are we going to explore the entire universe looking for John Bunyan?

Are you suggesting Atheists jump in the USS Enterprise and explore the universe, on a quest to find God?

[McQ]

I’d like for you to explain you motives and convince me, that you are here out of genuine curiosity and are not just poking the bear.

 :pop:

[Sophus]

Prayers have no effect.

How do you KNOW ?

I have received a LOT of prayers responded.......

Because there have been I don't know how many studies done on prayer. It never makes what is being prayed for more probable to occur. In one case they actually had a negative effect on the patients being prayed for because there was added psychological pressure for them to get better.

[Whitney]

When McQ noted that angel had been banned before I took a look at the logs.  I don't think we banned him (at least the logs don't show it) but he did get two warnings for exactly the same thing I gave him a friendly reminder for:

Whitney    Mon 04 Jan, 2010 9:18 am    The following warning was issued to this user
» This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=57008#p57008 .
same reason as before    

Whitney   Sun 03 Jan, 2010 2:59 pm    The following warning was issued to this user
» This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=56874#p56874 .

You cannot copy paste huge chunks of text as your own without putting it in quotes and providing a link to the original source. Linking to the forum that links to the original source is not acceptable. This is called plagiarism and is not only against HAF rules but is intellectually dishonest.

So, we obviously will not be going easy on further moderation and after researching his internet history of being banned elsewhere have decided he belongs in the restricted group.

[Ihateyoumike]

Please present positive evidence that atheism is true. No bible bashing, but   rational , logical , compelling arguments, better atheist arguments than theist ones,  to explain our existence.

I think the more important question here is why you want to be convinced. I have the suspicion that this post is entirely self serving. I don’t think you really want to find truth I think you want to be given opportunities to exploit gaps or contradictions in the opposing argument. You see, a question like this, from a truly religious person is only fuel for their own religion. The more important question is what would it take for you to let go of your faith of the supernatural? How far out into the cosmos would we have to see? How small are the subatomic particles that we would have to detect before you could say, ok I’m ready to let go of my faith. Under a certain religious mindset no matter how much scientific evidence is presented to them they could easily say that god created the evidence, either to fool you or that whatever evidence science finds is evidence of gods full range of power to create the cosmos in ever smaller and ever larger degrees into infinity. If you take the counter to this argument a person fully committed to scientific explanation would look at evidence of god in this way as well. Any religious miracle, such as Jesus healing blindness, to the scientific mind would immediately be viewed with skepticism. A truly scientific mind would immediately want to know the biological or chemical cause and purpose of such an anomaly. On the surface this miracle appears to be magic, but to the scientific mind it’s another problem to be solved. So before I entertain this question, and give your argument any potential fuel. I’d like for you to explain you motives and convince me, that you are here out of genuine curiosity and are not just poking the bear.

Well, since we, theists are frequently asked to provide evidence for our faith, i think the same has to be asked to atheists as well. So do you have any evidence to present, that makes a good case for atheism ?

Male bovine excrement, this is. You are the one making a positive claim of something existing without proof. The burden of proof does not lie with the people calling you out on it.

How do you people not understand this??

My evidence is scientific progress, and your complete lack of evidence for your positive claim.

Not sure why I bothered to respond to this.... Trying to get a theist to understand this point is about as futile as trying to keep a dog from licking his balls.

[Will]

This is agnosticism, not atheism.

Atheism is agnosticism.

You don't believe in Odin, ruler of the Norse gods, right? That's analogous to my opinion of your god. And the Jewish god. And Allah. And Shiva. And every god.

[xSilverPhinx]

If atheism is the lack of belief in gods because of the lack of evidence, then positive evidence for atheism would be the lack of evidence of gods.

I think that sums it up for me.

There's really a major difference between not accepting theistic "evidence-based" claims for whatever reason and saying something such as "there are no conceivable versions of god(s)", for which I doubt anybody can present positive evidence.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Here is my "proof".

I grew up Catholic and I was very religious for most of my life. I went to Church every Sunday, I went to Sunday school, I attended summer "church camps" (which were Baptist, actually. I went with some Baptist friends) I believed, hook line and sinker. I prayed daily, read the bible daily. I remember at one of these "church camps" I prayed and felt moved to tears by "the spirit" and I was convinced. As I got older I even tried to "minister" to one of my Gay, openly agnostic friends.

I did everything right. I hung around with equally religious people, I followed all of the "rules" (no pre-marital sex, etc). But as I got older, I started to feel my faith slipping away. It terrified me because I "knew" that non-believers were destined for hell. I prayed so hard that God would give me back my faith that had made me feel so secure. At one youth group event that I went to, our leaders had us write letters to God, which they would burn to "send up to God". We were to write what we wanted for our lives, what we wanted God to do for us. I wrote that the only thing I wanted was to have my strong, un-questioning faith back. I waited. I prayed. And it kept slipping away.

When I turned 18 I got a tattoo of a cross on my back as a final desperate act. Maybe if I "proved" how devoted I was (or wanted to be), God would come back. I got the stupid tattoo. Kept praying. And NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you know why? Because there is no God! I find it kind of embarrassing to talk about all of this now, because it seems so silly to me. I was so miserable, I was trying so, so hard (I was talking to myself and wasting so much energy).

But, from a religious perspective, what possible reason could there be for God to "not answer my prayers"? I wasn't praying for vanity, or to re-grow a limb, I was praying for faith. Why would God deny someone belief when he "loves" us so much and knows we'll go to hell without it?

He didn't deny me. He wasn't there. And my life got a million times happier when I realized that.

[Asmodean]

Positive, eh..?

Ok.

One can see or hear no god unless one has schizophrenia, which is no more divine than a chemical imbalance.

One can come in deliberate physical contact with no god.

One can find good, verifiable evidence of not a single god.

Thus, one should really consider worshipping Atheos the Ungodly.

These are positive statements, yes?

[Ulver]

Here is my "proof".

I grew up Catholic and I was very religious for most of my life. I went to Church every Sunday, I went to Sunday school, I attended summer "church camps" (which were Baptist, actually. I went with some Baptist friends) I believed, hook line and sinker. I prayed daily, read the bible daily. I remember at one of these "church camps" I prayed and felt moved to tears by "the spirit" and I was convinced. As I got older I even tried to "minister" to one of my Gay, openly agnostic friends.

I did everything right. I hung around with equally religious people, I followed all of the "rules" (no pre-marital sex, etc). But as I got older, I started to feel my faith slipping away. It terrified me because I "knew" that non-believers were destined for hell. I prayed so hard that God would give me back my faith that had made me feel so secure. At one youth group event that I went to, our leaders had us write letters to God, which they would burn to "send up to God". We were to write what we wanted for our lives, what we wanted God to do for us. I wrote that the only thing I wanted was to have my strong, un-questioning faith back. I waited. I prayed. And it kept slipping away.

When I turned 18 I got a tattoo of a cross on my back as a final desperate act. Maybe if I "proved" how devoted I was (or wanted to be), God would come back. I got the stupid tattoo. Kept praying. And NOTHING HAPPENED.

Do you know why? Because there is no God! I find it kind of embarrassing to talk about all of this now, because it seems so silly to me. I was so miserable, I was trying so, so hard (I was talking to myself and wasting so much energy).

But, from a religious perspective, what possible reason could there be for God to "not answer my prayers"? I wasn't praying for vanity, or to re-grow a limb, I was praying for faith. Why would God deny someone belief when he "loves" us so much and knows we'll go to hell without it?

He didn't deny me. He wasn't there. And my life got a million times happier when I realized that.

Quite the story! Whatever became of the tattoo?

[DeterminedJuliet]

Quite the story! Whatever became of the tattoo?

I still have it. It's kind of a black cross "pattern" that I came up with, so when you first look at it, it's not completely obvious to everyone that it's a cross (some people say it looks like a compass ). And it's on my back, so it doesn't bother me too much. I am looking to getting it covered up sometime, though. I'm just not sure if it's possible, or what I'd like to get it covered up with.  

But yes, boys and girls, let this be a lesson. Don't get religious tattoos out of desperation!  

[Stevil]

I feel that alot of people get confused as to the meaning of the term Atheist.

Atheist means a person who lacks a belief in God.
This is different to a person who believes that there is no God.

They both fall under the umbrella of Atheism because the person who believes that there is no God also lacks a belief in God.

So a clear definition is Hard Atheism and Weak Atheism.
I feel you would be justified in asking a Hard Atheist for proof in their belief.

A weak Atheist has no belief, so they do not make a claim to having any evidence one way or the other for or against gods in general.

In my opinion it is rediculous to expect evidence against gods in general when there is no clear definition of the term "god". Some specific religions ascribe very generic, untestable definitions. e.g. the creator of the Universe. What woud be the test for that? We can't go back 14 billion years and watch how our Universes expansion cycle began, even if we could, would we be able to see that this non material, invisible, undetectible god just decided to create it?

[Extropian]

Stevil writes,

"So a clear definition is Hard Atheism and Weak Atheism.
I feel you would be justified in asking a Hard Atheist for proof in their belief."

But would you feel equally justified in asking the Hard Atheist for proof that Quetzalcoatl doen't exist?

Respectfully, I suggest you give some thought to your answer for the next question might ask you to justify why one god is more credible than the other.

May I point out also that only EVIDENCE is being asked for in support of atheism. That is all one could ask in this context. PROOF of a Hard Atheist's conviction is impossible. Proof is something that science doesn't deal in.

Extropian

[Extropian]

Will writes,

               "Atheism is agnosticism."

               In fact the two are quite different.

               The agnostic believes that nothing can be known or will ever be known about gods, so speculation as to any god's existence is futile.

               The atheist has no belief in gods and lives his life as though no gods exist but is open to evidence of gods. This has been regarded as a "weak" position by comparison with the "strong" position which takes a step further by averring that no gods exist, never have and never will...........that gods exist only in the minds of Homo sapiens sapiens and nowhere else. The Universe and all existence has been for eternity and will be for eternity unalloyed by the supernatural.

               Rather than "Strong Atheism", I'd rather describe this as "positive atheism".

Extropian