Unhappy and anxious Atheist...

[gallahbrains]

I think also we (atheists) have to find some sort of middle ground about it. Life isn't always going to be pleasant, happiness will often be hard to come by. I still get these sort of, pangs of despair, when I think about death (my own and other people's -- just the whole idea of it). I often have to remind myself why I shouldn't be worrying about it. And sometimes (oddly, when I seem to be having the most fun, like when I'm out drinking with friends), I get the hopeless feeling that my enjoyment and the things I do is all futile. What is it all really? Isn't my happiness just chemicals in my brain? What's meaningful about that?

But no matter what, I find there are always things that just ARE meaningful, regardless of how you think about them. One example for me is music. Music is just such a powerful thing. Listening to music, and even better, playing music, FEELS meaningful in an unexplainable way. If you deconstruct it, all any piece of music is is a bunch of notes -- just sounds! -- played together or alone in a particular sequence and chopped up with different amounts of silence. If you think of it like that, music seems utterly meaningless. Just vibrations. But clearly when you listen to music you know it's not meaningless; it has a huge effect on our emotions, our thoughts, our bodies and so on. It communicates things that can't be communicated through language (and indeed some people say it is the universal language). A million different people can find a million different interpretations out of one piece of music. A song has its ups and downs, it repeats its themes, it takes us on a journey through verses and choruses and melodies and harmonies and then, once it's given us everything we want to hear, it ends.

So I guess the conclusion of this rant is that life is like music. Real subtle I know.  

Hi PJ,

I like your analogy to music.

Also, you sum up my feeling of despair perfectly. It's exactly how you put it for me too. Sometimes I look around at all the beautiful things and all the joy in the world and think surely, surely there is some meaning to this. Surely it's not all destinited for eternal nothingness? My logical mind thinks the latter but something else inside me can't help but think the former. Which is the cause of all the inner conflict that I am experiencing right now. Trying to find a rational answer when my mind tells me that there is none -- and indeed probably no answer at all.

There is two things that modern science tells us about the nature of the universe that I just can't compute.

1. That the universe started at the big bang and there was nothing before that. To me that makes no sense. A universe spontaneously creating itself when time and matter were before it non-existent, to me, is just as likely as a bearded man sitting on a cloud.
2. That after this creation the universe expands for eternity. That just doesn't seem to be the order of things. It seems to me that everything is part of some cycle or part of something larger.

I find it much easier to except that the universe may collapse back on itself and then - I suppose - explode in another "big bang". If it did this, then there is all possibility that we live again. If those that perpetuate pre-determinism are right then maybe we are doomed to live the same life over and over and over, each time seperated by an unthinkable stretch of time while the universe cycles through each implosion and explosion.

The other explantion is that we are part of something larger. That something did exist before the big bang. I'm not claiming a sentient being here, just something. Anything but nothing.

Either way I think our brains are too feeble to comprehend real answers. And I'm not arrogant enough to claim that modern science is wrong -- just that those two things make no sense to me.

Anyway, rant over.

[gallahbrains]

I think also we (atheists) have to find some sort of middle ground about it. Life isn't always going to be pleasant, happiness will often be hard to come by. I still get these sort of, pangs of despair, when I think about death (my own and other people's -- just the whole idea of it). I often have to remind myself why I shouldn't be worrying about it. And sometimes (oddly, when I seem to be having the most fun, like when I'm out drinking with friends), I get the hopeless feeling that my enjoyment and the things I do is all futile. What is it all really? Isn't my happiness just chemicals in my brain? What's meaningful about that?

But no matter what, I find there are always things that just ARE meaningful, regardless of how you think about them. One example for me is music. Music is just such a powerful thing. Listening to music, and even better, playing music, FEELS meaningful in an unexplainable way. If you deconstruct it, all any piece of music is is a bunch of notes -- just sounds! -- played together or alone in a particular sequence and chopped up with different amounts of silence. If you think of it like that, music seems utterly meaningless. Just vibrations. But clearly when you listen to music you know it's not meaningless; it has a huge effect on our emotions, our thoughts, our bodies and so on. It communicates things that can't be communicated through language (and indeed some people say it is the universal language). A million different people can find a million different interpretations out of one piece of music. A song has its ups and downs, it repeats its themes, it takes us on a journey through verses and choruses and melodies and harmonies and then, once it's given us everything we want to hear, it ends.

So I guess the conclusion of this rant is that life is like music. Real subtle I know.  

Hi PJ,

I like your analogy to music.

Also, you sum up my feeling of despair perfectly. It's exactly how you put it for me too. Sometimes I look around at all the beautiful things and all the joy in the world and think surely, surely there is some meaning to this. Surely it's not all destinited for eternal nothingness? My logical mind thinks the latter but something else inside me can't help but think the former. Which is the cause of all the inner conflict that I am experiencing right now. Trying to find a rational answer when my mind tells me that there is none -- and indeed probably no answer at all.

I will close by saying there is two things that modern science tells us about the nature of the universe that I just can't compute.

1. That the universe started at the big bang and there was nothing before that. To me that makes no sense. A universe spontaneously creating itself when time and matter were before it non-existent, to me, is just as likely as a bearded man sitting on a cloud.
2. That after this creation the universe expands for eternity. That just doesn't seem to be the order of things. It seems to me that everything is part of some cycle or part of something larger.

I find it much easier to except that the universe may collapse back on itself and then - I suppose - explode in another "big bang". If it did this, then there is some possibility that we live again. If those that perpetuate pre-determinism are right then maybe we are doomed to live the same life over and over and over, each time seperated by an unthinkable stretch of time while the universe cycles through each implosion and explosion. If this were the case (and I know the "if" is very large), then is not incomprehensible that we have some inkling of free will, that maybe allows each life to be slightly different from the last? I'm certainly not saying I believe that is what happens. But I'm leading to a point, that being that if this were the case, then Buddhist teachings would surely be the most accurate. Lots and ifs and maybes there, but I'm just rambling my thoughts. Truth be told, I wish I could voluntarily stop thinking of such things and unthinkingly go and drink some beer and enjoy the television like I used to.

The other explantion is that we are part of something larger. That something did exist before the big bang. I'm not claiming a sentient being here, just something. Anything but nothing.

Either way I think our brains are too feeble to comprehend real answers. And I'm not arrogant enough to claim that modern science is wrong -- just that those two things make no sense to me.

Anyway, rant over.

[gallahbrains]

I think also we (atheists) have to find some sort of middle ground about it. Life isn't always going to be pleasant, happiness will often be hard to come by. I still get these sort of, pangs of despair, when I think about death (my own and other people's -- just the whole idea of it). I often have to remind myself why I shouldn't be worrying about it. And sometimes (oddly, when I seem to be having the most fun, like when I'm out drinking with friends), I get the hopeless feeling that my enjoyment and the things I do is all futile. What is it all really? Isn't my happiness just chemicals in my brain? What's meaningful about that?

But no matter what, I find there are always things that just ARE meaningful, regardless of how you think about them. One example for me is music. Music is just such a powerful thing. Listening to music, and even better, playing music, FEELS meaningful in an unexplainable way. If you deconstruct it, all any piece of music is is a bunch of notes -- just sounds! -- played together or alone in a particular sequence and chopped up with different amounts of silence. If you think of it like that, music seems utterly meaningless. Just vibrations. But clearly when you listen to music you know it's not meaningless; it has a huge effect on our emotions, our thoughts, our bodies and so on. It communicates things that can't be communicated through language (and indeed some people say it is the universal language). A million different people can find a million different interpretations out of one piece of music. A song has its ups and downs, it repeats its themes, it takes us on a journey through verses and choruses and melodies and harmonies and then, once it's given us everything we want to hear, it ends.

So I guess the conclusion of this rant is that life is like music. Real subtle I know.  

Hi PJ,

I like your analogy to music.

Also, you sum up my feeling of despair perfectly. It's exactly how you put it for me too. Sometimes I look around at all the beautiful things and all the joy in the world and think surely, surely there is some meaning to this. Surely it's not all destinited for eternal nothingness? My logical mind thinks the latter but something else inside me can't help but think the former. Which is the cause of all the inner conflict that I am experiencing right now. Trying to find a rational answer when my mind tells me that there is none -- and indeed probably no answer at all.

I will close by saying there is two things that modern science tells us about the nature of the universe that I just can't compute.

1. That the universe started at the big bang and there was nothing before that. To me that makes no sense. A universe spontaneously creating itself when time and matter were before it non-existent, to me, is just as likely as a bearded man sitting on a cloud.
2. That after this creation the universe expands for eternity. That just doesn't seem to be the order of things. It seems to me that everything is part of some cycle or part of something larger.

I find it much easier to except that the universe may collapse back on itself and then - I suppose - explode in another "big bang". If it did this, then there is some kind of possibility that we live again. If those that perpetuate pre-determinism are right then maybe we are doomed to live the same life over and over and over, each time seperated by an unthinkable stretch of time while the universe cycles through each implosion and explosion. Or maybe - just maybe - we actually do have some inkling of free will, and there is some chaos in the order that allows each cycle to be slightly different. Probably not, but it's nice to think about it. Note that it all does have a decidedly Buddhist twang to it.

[SteveS]

Hi gallahbrains,  just a few comments,

1. That the universe started at the big bang and there was nothing before that. To me that makes no sense. A universe spontaneously creating itself when time and matter were before it non-existent, to me, is just as likely as a bearded man sitting on a cloud.

I'm not sure modern science is claiming it knows there was nothing before the big bang --- in fact I think this is a common misconception, and the theists seem to hit on this all the time (the old "how can something come from nothing?" bit - why I agree seems impossible).

There was no space before the big bang.  There was no time before the big bang.  But this isn't really saying there was "nothing".  The big bang itself seems to have originated from a singularity --- so there was a singularity, the existence of which is unexplained.  At least this is my understanding.

Anyway, some modern physicists have proposed that there are other universes, maybe even an infinite count of other universes, and that there may be other dimensions of existence that caused our universe to exist.  I just bought a book by some of these guys I'm hoping to read (it's on my list, hahaha!).

2. That after this creation the universe expands for eternity. That just doesn't seem to be the order of things. It seems to me that everything is part of some cycle or part of something larger.

Yeah, I hear ya.  I liked the idea of the "cyclical" universe.  The book I bought claims to address this as a possibility, which is primarily why I bought it.  The only problem is that right now the best evidence does seem to point to an eternal, boundless expansion, which is actually accelerating (which is the really bizarre part, right?).

Anyway - I find these topics immensely interesting.  One thing that's weird, I've had multiple theists presume that as an atheist I lacked curiosity about the "ultimate origins" question, or that I was content to just accept the universe as existing without wondering or caring how or why.  I don't understand why people would assume an atheist, simply by being an atheist, doesn't care about this stuff - I'm immensely curious about these same questions!

[skeptigirl]

It's a total fallacy to think one needs gods and/or a purpose to be happy. My take is, why shouldn't an atheist be happy? I don't buy those, 'I have Jesus, I'm happy' claims anyway. Seen "The God Who Wasn't There" yet? He shows a lot of smiles, contrasted with a lot of hate speech.

[Tom62]

We all have our ups and downs, which has nothing to whether there is a God or not. I assume that if I'd be on the theist side I'd be less happy. Imagine, having to believe that all your (and other people's) misfortunes are caused by a deity. The idea, that there is a deity out there who could punish me for no reason at all, would not make me feel very happy.

[SteveS]

He shows a lot of smiles, contrasted with a lot of hate speech.

Yeah, that always seemed weird about the religious to me.  Remember that shit-eating grin that Ted Haggard wore?

[User192021]

I get the same sense of freedom and relief described by the other posters from my own atheism.  Not freedom from accountability for my actions, as religious people will argue, as I have a conscience which does a more than adequate job of keeping me in line, but rather freedom from the unreasonable confines of religious dogma.  Prayer, going to church, studying scripture, worrying if I was "good enough" to make it into heaven, adhering to archaic rules that contradict modern sensibilities.  

As for the "what's the point if we just die and disappear?" attitude, I see things quite the opposite.  I'm fairly certain that in the billions of years this universe has existed and in the billions of years to come, I will get this life and this life only.  No second chances.  This knowledge (belief...technically) motivates me to enjoy my life.  I've had my share of struggles with depression, but whenever I'm feeling down, nothing cheers me up faster than atheism.  I think to myself "Don't waste your time feeling sad, because you'll never get that time back.  That's time that could have been spent smiling."  

If atheism is a source of any anxiety in my life, it's the fear that I have not lived my life to it's fullest.  But that thought, as I mentioned earlier, only motivates me to cheer up and enjoy this short, precious life we're fourtunate enough to get.

[Tom62]

I fully agree with User192021. Life is too short to drink cheap beer and eat lousy food. Why should anyone want to waste his/her valuable time on grovelling an obscure, hypothetical, abstract and brutal being that doesn't exist?

[SteveS]

Hear them, hear them!  Cheap beer is only good for cooking the brat's.

Religious "morality" is really religious "obedience".  Unquestioning obedience is just another form of slavery.