Mithras - Jesus similarities a lie?

[Whitney]

Most of us have probably seen the following:

WHO WAS HE?:  He was born on December 25th. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master. He had 12 companions or disciples. He performed miracles. He was buried in a tomb. After three days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year. He was called "the Good Shepherd." He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah." He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb. His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ. He had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected. His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."


WHO WAS HE........ he was MITHRAS

"He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." An inscription to Mithras which parallels John 6:53-54. This inscription is inside the vatican... in the tomb of saint Peter.

Here is what the attached articles basically all say about Mithras:

Mithra. The final mystery cult we will consider came from Persia. It stood apart from the other cults in that it was a religion for men only (mostly soldiers) and it demanded a much stricter life-style than the others. In Persian mythology Mithra was both a god of beneficent light and the wrathful foe of all evil. He is usually represented as coming from a cave and as slaying the sacred bull. Therefore the cult-centers (called Mithreums) were caves or underground grottoes instead of temples.
There were seven grades (from the seven planets identified by the ancients) of membership in the cult: the Raven, the Occult, the Soldier, the Lion, the Persian, the Courier of the Sun, and finally, the Father. For each initiation the participant wore a mask appropriate to his level and acted the part he would become (e.g., crowing for the Raven). The level of Soldier seems to have been especially important since the initiate received a mark of sealing (a sign burned on his forehead).4 Apparently at each level of initiation there were also tortures appliedâ€"whippings, punishments by water, fire, frost, hunger, thirst, and long journeysâ€"all arranged with increasing severity.
There were also at these initiations water ablutions by sprinkling or by total immersion. In at least two levels honey would be put on the tongue and the hands of the initiate (as was customary to put into the mouth of a newborn infant). Finally a meal would be eaten of bread and wine which, they believed, would give them power to combat evil spirits. Mithraism was characterized by strict morality, even asceticism. They resisted sexual immorality and engaged in rigorous fasting. Mithra stood for truth and holiness and thus, it was believed, would not tolerate laxity of morals. They believed that when one died he ascended through the seven levels of heaven, each of which was presided over by one of the seven planets. Because the cult member had learned the right formulas (like passwords) by his initiation into the seven levels of the cult, he could pass through each of these levels after death and be joined to the gods.The mystery religions, then, offered their members an escape (after death) from the grim clutches of Fate. The members of these cults believed they would rise to the level of the gods and be divinized themselves.
Fate might control them now but their souls were free. The mysteries were then a way of liberation, it was believed, and even salvation from the uncertain and grim existence that so many people experienced.

Mithras is explained very differently in the "who was he" quote than in the articles....so, which one is right?

[joeactor]

Most of us have probably seen the following:

WHO WAS HE?:  He was born on December 25th. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master. He had 12 companions or disciples. He performed miracles. He was buried in a tomb. After three days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year. He was called "the Good Shepherd." He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah." He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb. His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ. He had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected. His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."


WHO WAS HE........ he was MITHRAS

"He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." An inscription to Mithras which parallels John 6:53-54. This inscription is inside the vatican... in the tomb of saint Peter.

Here is what the attached articles basically all say about Mithras:

Mithra. The final mystery cult we will consider came from Persia. It stood apart from the other cults in that it was a religion for men only (mostly soldiers) and it demanded a much stricter life-style than the others. In Persian mythology Mithra was both a god of beneficent light and the wrathful foe of all evil. He is usually represented as coming from a cave and as slaying the sacred bull. Therefore the cult-centers (called Mithreums) were caves or underground grottoes instead of temples.
There were seven grades (from the seven planets identified by the ancients) of membership in the cult: the Raven, the Occult, the Soldier, the Lion, the Persian, the Courier of the Sun, and finally, the Father. For each initiation the participant wore a mask appropriate to his level and acted the part he would become (e.g., crowing for the Raven). The level of Soldier seems to have been especially important since the initiate received a mark of sealing (a sign burned on his forehead).4 Apparently at each level of initiation there were also tortures appliedâ€"whippings, punishments by water, fire, frost, hunger, thirst, and long journeysâ€"all arranged with increasing severity.
There were also at these initiations water ablutions by sprinkling or by total immersion. In at least two levels honey would be put on the tongue and the hands of the initiate (as was customary to put into the mouth of a newborn infant). Finally a meal would be eaten of bread and wine which, they believed, would give them power to combat evil spirits. Mithraism was characterized by strict morality, even asceticism. They resisted sexual immorality and engaged in rigorous fasting. Mithra stood for truth and holiness and thus, it was believed, would not tolerate laxity of morals. They believed that when one died he ascended through the seven levels of heaven, each of which was presided over by one of the seven planets. Because the cult member had learned the right formulas (like passwords) by his initiation into the seven levels of the cult, he could pass through each of these levels after death and be joined to the gods.The mystery religions, then, offered their members an escape (after death) from the grim clutches of Fate. The members of these cults believed they would rise to the level of the gods and be divinized themselves.
Fate might control them now but their souls were free. The mysteries were then a way of liberation, it was believed, and even salvation from the uncertain and grim existence that so many people experienced.

Mithras is explained very differently in the "who was he" quote than in the articles....so, which one is right?

Well, the first one reads like a propaganda e-mail, the second looks fairly dry history with no interpretation.

I'd heard the Mithras thing before, and recently saw a movie called "The God Who Wasn't There" that touches on it briefly.  The movie is a documentary of sorts, and the main guy's a bit biased, but the information and interviews are pretty interesting to watch.

He attempts to explore both sides of the question "Did Jesus exist?".  There is talk of earlier deities, rapture, historical refs, etc.

If you're interested, there's a web site at:
  The God Who Wasn't There

[iplaw]

joeactor:

He attempts to explore both sides of the question "Did Jesus exist?".

Oh holy crap, not that damned propagand movie again!  I'd rather sit through Loose Change Second Addition again...there's nothing even handed about that flick...it's clearly out to prove a point.

laetusatheos:

So I don't answer the wrong question.  Is this thread asking about inconsistencies in the traditional mithra story or about some people's contention that christianity is a copycat mithra, or both?

[Whitney]

laetusatheos:

So I don't answer the wrong question.  Is this thread asking about inconsistencies in the traditional mithra story or about some people's contention that christianity is a copycat mithra, or both?

In a way both, but specifically how much truth is in the claims of similarities between Jesus and Mithra.  

Maybe some background on how I got the attached articles would be in order:  I was bored and chatting online and someone was trying to convert me into Christianity.  I really wasn't in the mood to argue about religion and after being asked the same question I had already answered multiple times I threw out pagan similarities to Jesus as a possible explanation of the Jesus story...that Jesus probably existed but was misunderstood and then later writers embellished on the story with past beliefs.  Then this other guy chinned in and said the Mithra story which looks similar to that of Jesus is fabricated.  That was the first time I had heard it was a lie so I had him send me some sources for his claim.  He seemed to know a lot about the subject, so I figured what he sent was worth taking into consideration.

[iplaw]

Here is a paper that was written in response to the Mithra pagan copycat book, The Christ Conspiracy showing it is a tenuous argument at best.  It's kind of long, but a good response nontheless.  You will see from the paper that many who wish to use mithra as a relevant copycat myth use very out of date mithraic material, which may account for the seeming inconsistencies in his response.

Here is another link to papers written by the same author discussing various other "copycat" theories that are floating around.

[Bruce]

Both "The Christ Conspiracy" and the stuff from Tektonics are not considered authoritative or even remotely accurate, in terms of actual history. Archaya, in "The Christ Conspiracy" take facts, puts a spin on them and then concocts a story that is only plausible in some sense, and not justified by the evidence. Tektonics is plain apologetic nonsense.

The facts are that Mithraism existed 100 - 200 years before Christianity came on the scene and shared many, many of the stories and precepts, except it was a male only mystery religion, where Christianity was egalitarian. There are many other dying and rising demi-god stories, that also mirror Christianity. Even the early Christian fathers/apologists recognized this fact and their explanantion, which is the official explantion of most Christian denomination today was: "Satan founded copycat religions before Jesus was born, because he knew what was coming". If you believe in a universe of magic, maybe this make sense.

This argument really illustrates a profound point when arguing with supernaturalists, especially theists. They believe in a universe populated by invisible, magical beings and magic/miracles can be invoked by them at any time to explain any problem. We as atheists, do not believe in a universe populated by magical beings. In a preceptual sense, atheists and supernaturalists live in two distinct universes, which is really only one real one. Which is right? Well, the supernaturalists make the extraordinary claim, thus they must provide extraordinary evidence to validate their claim. That they continue to try and do so on rational grounds (partially), is evidence that their magical paradigm is dying as science moves forward.

Bruce

[Jassman]

The facts are that Mithraism existed 100 - 200 years before Christianity came on the scene and shared many, many of the stories and precepts

These are the "facts" I was fed as well. But I have not found any concrete evidence for this. Do you have a source for this information?

By the way, awesome signature.

[Bruce]

I would suggest you research in the Archaeological and Anthropological peer reviewed publications. I do not personally have a reference, beyond what I studied in graduate school. There are Mithraic ruins, even in Rome that were converted into Christian shrines. An old saying, which is good is "History may lie, but artifacts don't".