Author Topic: History, how to deal with it?  (Read 532 times)

Dave

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2017, 04:44:03 AM »
I feel like a good solution would be to leave the statues standing, and add a bronze marker plate with a couple, few paragraphs, giving a more balanced, accurate view of the man. The good and the bad. Not in a celebratory way, but a cautionary way. There are fantastic writers out there who could be sensitive about how they write it. I wonder if that would be satisfactory to people? It would still be a monument to our history, but make it more honest.
That occurred to me as well, it would certainly bave to be sensitive, including that these were "men of their time" but the times they are a-changing and we need to change with them.

Also put up more monuments to the good people? Maybe even the man or womsn down the road that did a thousand tiny things that made the local community better. Support your local hero!
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Davin

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 07:27:24 AM »
I don't think that those statues belong on public land. They don't need to be destroyed, but they should be moved. Like with religious symbols, having those statues on public land at government buildings shows that the government implicitly supports them and what they stood for.

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Dave

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2017, 07:31:22 AM »
I don't think that those statues belong on public land. They don't need to be destroyed, but they should be moved. Like with religious symbols, having those statues on public land at government buildings shows that the government implicitly supports them and what they stood for.

I think some of the former Soviet states put all their Lenins, Stalins and heroic workers in special parks. I actually liked the "power" in some of the Soviet era statuary, if not the politics behind them.
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Tom62

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2017, 12:43:32 PM »
I gave it some more thought and agree with Davin that the statues should be moved. Lee was a great general, but he fought on the wrong side (a case similar like Erwin Rommel?).
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Dave

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2017, 01:18:45 PM »
I gave it some more thought and agree with Davin that the statues should be moved. Lee was a great general, but he fought on the wrong side (a case similar like Erwin Rommel?).

Both patriotic men of honour fighting for their homeland, deserving respect if not adulation.
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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 02:41:41 PM »
I don't think that those statues belong on public land. They don't need to be destroyed, but they should be moved. Like with religious symbols, having those statues on public land at government buildings shows that the government implicitly supports them and what they stood for.

I agree.  The place for them is in a museum.
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Dragonia

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 03:10:21 PM »
^^^ That's a great idea, to move them to museums. I'm sure there are many empty spots in Civil War Museums everywhere!
I just re the idea of destroying all of them, when they could have some educational or reminder value.
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Dave

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2017, 09:12:04 PM »
^^^ That's a great idea, to move them to museums. I'm sure there are many empty spots in Civil War Museums everywhere!
I just re the idea of destroying all of them, when they could have some educational or reminder value.
Just so long as those museums do not become shrines to the thought patterns we should seek to eradicate.
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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 06:20:37 AM »
It astounds me that the side that is all about whitewashing history to paint slavery as "nice", to erase a lot of the horrendous ways that the natives were treated, etc. is whining about "history erasure" from taking down statues celebrating those who fought to keep slavery.

Although, this kind of contradictory thinking is rife in the Far Right (Thinking that religious freedom = Christian beliefs in law, for one). It still never fails to get me that they actually get away with this twisted thinking and adding it to the table like it's an actual valid argument.

The monuments were not even put up to commemorate the military leaders... They were put up as propaganda during the Jim Crow law era. They are all about white supremacy. They should be taken down and put in museums along with information explaining when, why, and how they were added to begin with. If anyone seriously wants to argue that is "history erasure" they are full of it. This is *teaching* history.

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 06:12:56 PM »
I don't think that those statues belong on public land. They don't need to be destroyed, but they should be moved. Like with religious symbols, having those statues on public land at government buildings shows that the government implicitly supports them and what they stood for.

I agree.  The place for them is in a museum.

Also agreed.  Living in Texas I see a few Confederate statues around, and they are slightly embarrassing.  I feel no affinity for that cause, even though I understand that my forefathers truly believed in it.  It was a bad idea, and it's over, forever, I hope.  Museums are appropriate.

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2017, 04:58:56 AM »
You know, putting these monuments in museums would have the added psychological benefit of relegating the slavery mindset to a bygone era, only to be remembered in books and museums. Once something goes into a museum, it feels more like we're looking at the past.
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Davin

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2017, 07:17:03 AM »
That would be great. This continuance of racism needs to be relegated to the past. I'd say it belongs with thinking the Earth is flat... but that's making a come back.

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Dave

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2017, 09:05:46 AM »
I see even your national cathedral is removing the windows that feature Lee and Jackson.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/us/politics/washington-national-cathedral-stained-glass-confederate-lee.html
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Icarus

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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2017, 09:20:35 PM »
I respect that several of you have condemned the statues of confederate soldiers and officers.  I herewith argue that the removal of such artifices are counter productive.  We have statutes of an unknown confederate soldier in my towns public square.  My town, in the years of civil war had about 150 farmers, none of which had slaves. None! When the statue was installed in 1904 there were no particular objections. In fact it was a mater of civic pride for my forebears.

The federal government recognizes that war as between two countries, not as an act of treason by rebellious citizens.  Public laws 810 and 85-425 officially deemed American confederate soldiers with the same protections as Union soldiers.  Today the department of veterans affairs will furnish a free headstone to Confederate veterans.  The federal government has no intentions of re-naming any military base or streets because they might be named in honor of any Confederate individual.   Lincoln Himself stated; "Honor to the soldiers and sailors everywhere, who bravely bears this countries cause. Honor also to the citizen who cares for his brother in the field that he serves, as best can, the same cause"

When asked about removing civil war monuments, Condoleeza Rice stated; When you start wiping out your history;sanitizing your history to make you feel better, it is a bad thing. I am a firm believer that keeping your history before you is useful'". I will add, how else would we presume to  learn?

I am personally sickened by the leaders of the silliness sweepstakes at colleges around our country. At the moment,Yale, the bastion of academic uppity excellence is the most egregious of offenders. Then there is Oberlin,  Berkley and a few others who have contracted a "Shit for brains" mentality.  Safe spaces, Trigger warnings, and other snowflake absurdities diminish us. Did we fight WW2 and win because we had a pussy mentality. Did we build this country with the primary aim of political correctness.  Bullshit.  The Pioneers who traveled by wagon train to Oregon were definitely not snowflakes. They had courage to take whatever fates befell them.  Did the West Virginia coal minors of old lie down and give up because their lot was almost hopeless? Hell no, we were collectively made of sterner stuff and we could handle diversity and hardships and derision from our "betters".  We may not have liked or accepted a lower degree of acceptance but we did persevere.

Jefferson and Washington were slave holders, Their faces are spectacularly displayed  on the side of Mount Rushmore. Must we do away with those monuments too?

Rant partially completed.... I'll be back to appeal to your more mature and esoteric  judgements.



 


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Re: History, how to deal with it?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2017, 09:27:49 PM »
Leaving those statues up is no different than creating a safe space for racists...
But, uh...well there it is.
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