Author Topic: North Korea and USA shenanigans...  (Read 492 times)

Firebird

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 03:00:37 PM »
Yeah, I'm worried, especially as the heat from the Russia investigation increases on Trump. No better way to distract everyone from that and rally the masses behind you than bombing someone far away. Right now North Korea is the most likely target, but they keep bringing up Iran too.
I can't tell how crazy Kim really is, whether he'd actually try to fire these things. Even he must know he's horribly outgunned if he took out a city or two on the west coast. But his position may also be more precarious than we think, since he's had to assassinate people like his own uncle to stay in power.

Not worried at all. In the worst case North Korea and the US base in Guam will be obliterated.

What is wrong with you? You do realize you're still talking about millions of innocent people dying, right? Also, not worst case at all. Worst case North Korea takes out Guam and a city or two in the US (assuming their icbms really do work), then the US bombs back and invades with no regard for strategy. All that nuclear radiation drifts into China and South Korea, including Seoul. China will invade North Korea too because they are deathly afraid having a US ally like South Korea on their border (it's the only reason they still prop up the North), so we might end up in a fight with them too. And hey, guess what, China has nukes too!

Really my biggest fear is that Trump feels the walls closing in around him in regards to Russia and decides to attack first to distract. My only hope is that everyone refuses to follow his orders and the cabinet immediately invokes the 25th amendment to remove him from power. Or someone stops him some other way before he reads the codes off. Whatever it takes.
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Arturo

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 03:54:19 PM »
I assume they have a back up plan to disarm Trump. They might be in his office distracting him from NK. Then when he won't stop focusing on it they might have some other way to get him to "reconsider" or look at other options. Then when all deters fail and he actually tries to launch a nuke, he just presses a dummy button and they treat him like a prisoner until they can successfully brainwash him.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Firebird

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 06:09:33 PM »
I assume they have a back up plan to disarm Trump. They might be in his office distracting him from NK. Then when he won't stop focusing on it they might have some other way to get him to "reconsider" or look at other options. Then when all deters fail and he actually tries to launch a nuke, he just presses a dummy button and they treat him like a prisoner until they can successfully brainwash him.

Which "they"?
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Arturo

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 07:57:44 PM »
I assume they have a back up plan to disarm Trump. They might be in his office distracting him from NK. Then when he won't stop focusing on it they might have some other way to get him to "reconsider" or look at other options. Then when all deters fail and he actually tries to launch a nuke, he just presses a dummy button and they treat him like a prisoner until they can successfully brainwash him.

Which "they"?

Espionage type people in the government. FBI, CIA, NSA, or Secret Service. Who knows really. Those guys plan for everything.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Dave

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2017, 12:26:34 AM »
I assume they have a back up plan to disarm Trump. They might be in his office distracting him from NK. Then when he won't stop focusing on it they might have some other way to get him to "reconsider" or look at other options. Then when all deters fail and he actually tries to launch a nuke, he just presses a dummy button and they treat him like a prisoner until they can successfully brainwash him.

Which "they"?

Espionage type people in the government. FBI, CIA, NSA, or Secret Service. Who knows really. Those guys plan for everything.

Whilst it might seem that there are factions in the security community in the States that are not exactly on Trump's side I would very much doubt that they would go that far. Not without the conspiracy involving most of the general staff and a good slice of the armed forces middle management.

I very much doubt that situation pertains, you Americans invest so much power and authotirity, in terms of making war, in your president he might as well be a king. I am not sure if there is even a mechanism where Congress can put reins on him. Better chance of someone putting a bullet through his head.
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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2017, 06:01:24 AM »
Dammit Bruno, That is pretty close to the voice of doom.  I am much worried about the outcome of this absurd spat.  The NK guy is a weird dude that is held by his people to be godlike. That is scary. Our guy is also scary but not to the extent that Kim whatizname appears to be.

It only gets worse...all of the major news outlets are now running stories similar to this one. "What Should You Do in Case of Nuclear Attack? ‘Don’t Run. Get Inside."

Only six months into Trump's presidency (Sic), and we’re at the “how to survive a nuclear attack" phase.  Just fucking fantastic.
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Arturo

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2017, 08:20:58 AM »
I assume they have a back up plan to disarm Trump. They might be in his office distracting him from NK. Then when he won't stop focusing on it they might have some other way to get him to "reconsider" or look at other options. Then when all deters fail and he actually tries to launch a nuke, he just presses a dummy button and they treat him like a prisoner until they can successfully brainwash him.

Which "they"?

Espionage type people in the government. FBI, CIA, NSA, or Secret Service. Who knows really. Those guys plan for everything.

Whilst it might seem that there are factions in the security community in the States that are not exactly on Trump's side I would very much doubt that they would go that far. Not without the conspiracy involving most of the general staff and a good slice of the armed forces middle management.

I very much doubt that situation pertains, you Americans invest so much power and authotirity, in terms of making war, in your president he might as well be a king. I am not sure if there is even a mechanism where Congress can put reins on him. Better chance of someone putting a bullet through his head.

I doubt there would be some sort of conspiracy between most of the staff. That many people cannot be allowed to know that. In these communities, I will take a Tom Clancy reference, "no one person knows everything". So there are things not even the President knows, there are things not even the head of the FBI, or what have you, knows. There could be enough people to do just what they need to do to stop him in the event of catastrophe. And as we've seen, they are not above spying on citizens, so certainly they are not above spying on their own government or other departments.

The President as well doesn't have any authority to declare war without congress approval. That does not count as armed conflicts like the middle east. War is between two or more nations. Espionage also does not count for war because nobody is supposed to know anyways. Yes they are war-like acts but they are not war itself. The President has the authority to wage war-like acts but as far as what he/she does, I think they leave most of the decision-making and planning to the respective departments and the President just approves or declines certain things. Like signing a bill into law.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Dave

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2017, 08:45:39 AM »

Quote
War Powers

Congress holds the power to declare war. As a result, the President cannot declare war without their approval. However, as the Commander in Chief of the armed forces, Presidents have sent troops to battle without an official war declaration (which happened in Vietnam and Korea). The 1973 War Powers Act attempted to define when and how the President could send troops to battle by adding strict time frames for reporting to Congress after sending troops to war, in addition to other measures, however it has not had much effect (see "War Powers Resolution" section in the Commander in Chief Powers  article).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/executive_power

Quote
The Constitution may give Congress the ability to declare war, but in reality it has little ability to stop the President if he's determined to strike North Korea.
That's because the President has his own authority as commander in chief to defend the country from threats, and in practice the Executive Branch has used that authority for a range of military actions.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/09/politics/trump-bomb-north-korea-congress/index.html



OK, let's not call it a war, let's call it a "defensive action with the potential to severely piss-off a major, nuclear, world power and do serious damage to America's relationship with a very, very important strategic and trading ally if handled the way America usually does."

And it looks like Congress has limited sway over the POTUS's decisions in this area.

I can only hope that the anti-missile defence systems that, no doubt, Anerica is rushing get in a ring around NK and Guam do their job. Having every missile either fail or be intercepted (assuming they are ever launched) and destroyed might nske Kim think twice.

A lot depends on your definition of war here, Arturo, tens of thousands, or more, killed and cities wrecked sounds awfully like one.
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Tom62

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2017, 09:48:55 AM »
From Facebook: When two countries go to war for some reason, their presidents should fight 1 on 1 to death, instead of sending young people to die.
Now that is an idea that I fully support.

BTW in my previous post I said "Not worried at all. In the worst case North Korea and the US base in Guam will be obliterated." That was of course a joke.
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Firebird

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2017, 01:50:03 PM »
From Facebook: When two countries go to war for some reason, their presidents should fight 1 on 1 to death, instead of sending young people to die.
Now that is an idea that I fully support.

BTW in my previous post I said "Not worried at all. In the worst case North Korea and the US base in Guam will be obliterated." That was of course a joke.

If so, then I apologize. Poe's Law and all.
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Arturo

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 04:58:03 PM »
If Trump fought Kim, I think Kim would win.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Tom62

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2017, 10:25:53 PM »
From Facebook: When two countries go to war for some reason, their presidents should fight 1 on 1 to death, instead of sending young people to die.
Now that is an idea that I fully support.

BTW in my previous post I said "Not worried at all. In the worst case North Korea and the US base in Guam will be obliterated." That was of course a joke.

If so, then I apologize. Poe's Law and all.

I'm to blame, Dutch humor can be very black, sarcastic and easily be misunderstood.
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Dave

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2017, 05:02:44 AM »
Sounds like The Wanker is still winding up for World War Three.
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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2017, 07:33:05 AM »
So North Korea has a history of being supported by Russia. Putin is mad a Trump both for not yet removing the Magnitsky sanctions and then adding more. And now North Korea is trolling our Pumpkin in Chief. So maybe that's all related.

That's not the craziest of conspiracy theories.

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Re: North Korea and USA shenanigans...
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2017, 11:26:06 AM »
Having mentioned a build-up of US forces around the Korean peninsula it seems there has not been such. One of tbe editors of Janes saud, on the BBC, that there was one carrier - not "carrier group", single ship - currently in harbour in Japan. The only other major assets in the area are the aurcraft at Guam and any subs lurking.

Thus, short of ICBMs from the States itself about the only real hit available is another mass cruise missile attack. But he said that the American ammunition reserves have already been run down lately and replacement might take months if not years.

Strategically can Anerica afford another offensive move? Is Trump all hot air blather and will the Russo-Chinese plan actually save his bacon. Though he will distort that to seem that was his plan all along of course.
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