Author Topic: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...  (Read 330 times)

Arturo

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I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« on: July 26, 2017, 02:08:50 AM »
There's nowhere else for me to say this so I'll just say it - I have problems reacting to social cues. Usually I do not pick up on them or I have an inappropriate reaction to it. Some people don't know this about me and other people think I know I'm reacting this way.

I blame this on my step mom who always had arguments with everybody. She was one of those people who have bad reactions to people too and she passed it onto me. Before I met her I could actually hold a conversation but I don't have anyone to turn to atm to be able to practice reacting appropriately.

I remember I felt bad for making her mad one time and she just yelled in my face. Then the next time she came over the first thing she did was complain about me as she was walking through the door! I said I'm sorry and she started yelling in my face again.

After all this time it came to be that when I want to be calm and humble, I end up getting really excited instead. And that puts a lot of my relationships with people at a halt. So I ask here for help.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Asmodean

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 08:25:25 AM »
Hmm...

Yes...

This is a difficult one for me, as I have not really figured it out myself. My approach is to just be that difficult friend who is worth the effort, but only if you are the kind of person to put in the effort in the first place.

I wouldn't recommend it. Of all the people I know well, maybe one other could be content with that.

Generic remedies include detachment, having an outlet or two and what have you, but if your emotional responses kick in before the reasoned ones have the time to apply the brakes, there probably is not much for you in those. Still, from what I understand, that one is a muscle one can train.

With this, I'll leave the floor to the wiser speakers before I go completely esoteric.
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Claireliontamer

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 09:03:25 AM »
Blaming other people isn't helpful.  You need to take control of this yourself and stop living in the past.  So what if you didn't have the best examples to follow growing up, you're your own person now and you can change this if you want to.  It's only by taking control of our own actions and taking responsibility that we can begin to alter our behaviour.

There are ways of altering our behaviour patterns, a therapist can certainly help but one of the best things I have found is to start being more self-aware.  If you're a writer then write down every time you struggle with social interactions and explore in your own mind what happened and what the early cues were.  By starting to spot the very early warning signs you can start to then do something about it by consciously altering your behaviour before the automatic response starts to kick in.

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 12:09:06 PM »
I will agree with Ckaire thar bring self-aware and having insight is a very important first step.

Sometimes, after we have pulled a blooper, we ask oursrlves, "Why did I do that?" Then usually shrug and get in with whatever. Using insight we night stop dead after asking that question and really think about it. Was there any real reason to be rude/mean or was it just knee jerk? What did that person really mean? Could I have asked him/her to explain or justify? Was I just being a reaction-on-legs? Is it posdible to repair, no matter how embarrassing, because "non-ownership" of the mistake only makes it worse for both parties. "Sorry" is a little word with a big value.

Think about the habits of others as well, they might be having similar problems to yourself or suffering an unrationsl bigotry. In the latter case therevus oribably not muchbyou can do, so the shrug us appropriate here - their bigotted opinion is not worth getting upset over!

Also empathy, put yourself in the other's position - you probably don't like it if others are nasty to you. "WTF did he say/do that for?" So why be nasty to them, even if they deserve it?

Role play is good for this problem I think, if you can get in a group.
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Arturo

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 01:44:19 PM »
Idk. I went over this last night with someone who is more of my friend than any other person in a long time. I think I just had a bad child hood after a certain point and now it comes out as an adult. I'm well into my 20s and I feel like all I want is control. Not control over people but myself.

I sometimes know that I am doing wrong in social things but I don't know what I'm supposed to do right. Like I said, I think this was due to my poor upbringing.

I don't know how to respond to you Claire. I know you are trying to help but it just feels like I'm being scolded when people explain what I'm doing wrong and what I need to do, ect. I'm not sure any response I come up with would be a good one because it probably means something different to me and you.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Asmodean

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 02:22:19 PM »
Hmm... Do you feel/think/perceive/know that you do not have that control? Or is it a matter of measure, as in you know how much control you have, but want/need more?
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Claireliontamer

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 03:24:31 PM »
Sorry Arturu,

I've re-read my post and realised it does come across as a bit scoldy.  It wasn't the way it was intended at all.

I have a lot of issues from my upbringing, mainly around the behaviours I saw in my Mum and the way she treated us as kids.  All my way through my 20s I lived under this and everything I did I would say either internally or externally things like 'it's because of the way I was brought up' etc.

I've been suicidal, I've been in a psychiatric hospital and I've taken all sorts of psychiatric drugs over the years but honestly one of the best things I have done is to draw a line under what has happened in the past and stop blaming everything on it. 

I'm not saying it is easy but it is possible to get away from past behaviours.

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 10:55:56 PM »
...
- I have problems reacting to social cues. Usually I do not pick up on them or I have an inappropriate reaction to it.
...
Could you give us an example of this--Please?

What happened the last time you reacted in an inappropriate way, according to you, or those who "know you." What was said, or done to you, who said it, and how did you react? Just curious.

Also, remember this:

The solution to your problem could be this simple.  ;)


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solidsquid

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 11:35:45 PM »
Just to be up front, I'm going to make a lot of generalized statements, but it's done for brevity.  Specific aspects and situations that are brought up could help the focus.  Please let me know if you think I'm off track with what you are wishing to discuss.

With that said, aggressive behavior is rarely ever useful - I say rarely because in some instances like social bonding rituals among males it is often used but in an undirected sense - think moshpits at metal shows, crushing a can on your head at a keg party and yelling "fuck yeah!".  That kind of stuff....and yes, I personally have performed both of those.

In nearly all other situations of interpersonal interaction with folks, aggression isn't useful.  Reservation with acknowledgement whether verbal or body language or both is quite useful.  It is often interpreted as careful consideration or being attentive to what the person has to say.

I'd say in most general conversations I listen a lot, understand the context of what they are saying and then reciprocate with a story of similar theme from my own experience or thoughts.  If there isn't anything like that on your end, general questions about the story or just agreement of the sentiment such as, "yeah man, that's crazy!"

Really all social interaction can be conceptualized as using appropriate "filters" for each situation.  For example, I wouldn't use my "party filter" in a discussion with my boss, for example:

Boss - "Cory, could you explain the results you found with the regression model and what variables the model rejected and why?"

Me - "Yeah sure.  Well ya see, all of those variables were shit except for one.  So I worked all fucking day on that dumbass model for one goddamn variable - fuck that noise! You know what I mean?"

That was an inappropriate filter.  I'd need to use my "work" filter:

Boss - "Cory, could you explain the results you found with the regression model and what variables the model rejected and why?"

Me - "Absolutely.  As the you can see from the print out, the model retained only one variable which accounted for approximately 49% of the variance in the dependent variable.  As to why the model rejected the other variables, it seems to be due to the lack of significant correlation, although a couple of the variables were actually discrete data treated as continuous which  could explain why some predictors were excluded when they were expected to be retained."

As for being more specific with social cues, in many instances simply smiling is helpful as staring blankly is interpreted as distasteful.

One thing to possibly consider is emulation of someone with a high degree of social intelligence.  It is actually a soft skill that employers are not actively looking for as many newer graduates lack that skill.  A generation raised on the internet with minimal human interaction has degraded the available pool of skilled individuals in that area.

There are those who are naturally good at interacting with other people.  I'm not one of those people but I have learned to fake it really well.  It is much like being in a hospitality role - you greet them, smile a lot, ask how they are, ask questions concerning their life and situations you are aware of, display jubilance for their stories of fortune and sympathize with their stories of woe, offer encouraging words, keep smiling, remind them of how happy you were to talk to them, a light touch in a non-threatening area such as upper arm, upper back, or a firm handshake as a parting gesture will leave them with a good sense of their encounter with you.  If they ask about your life, keep the responses short, sweet, and sanitized and let their experiences, concerns, and so forth be the majority of the content of the encounter.  If someone is reluctant or shy about sharing content about themselves be encouraging and reassuring or skip right to the ending with something like, "well, I have to run but it was wonderful to see you again..." *touch on the shoulder nearest you* "...you take care now, and don't work too hard..." *keep smiling as you continue on your way*.

I know a lot of it sounds ridiculous but objectively social interactions are ridiculous.  There are many unwritten rules, conventions, taboos and so forth regarding interactions which all change depending on the situation and environment.  For someone who has a hard time understanding it all or is not accustomed to it all, it can definitely be difficult.

I know much of this is rambling and I'm not even sure if it's actually helpful but I hope at least some of it was useful to you.

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 02:02:29 AM »
Ok you've all said a lot and I will try to get to all of you tonight in one post so bare with for awhile or go to bed if you have to.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Arturo

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 03:19:48 AM »
Hmm... Do you feel/think/perceive/know that you do not have that control? Or is it a matter of measure, as in you know how much control you have, but want/need more?
Asmodean
Yes it's like I know I have control over myself and my mind but I just want more. Like the control I have is not satisfying enough. I usually let things go with most people besides a couple who just left a lasting impression on me. But when it comes to my mind state I don't let it go and I suppose that's a good thing because I always strive to improve it.

Sorry Arturu,

I've re-read my post and realised it does come across as a bit scoldy.  It wasn't the way it was intended at all.

I have a lot of issues from my upbringing, mainly around the behaviours I saw in my Mum and the way she treated us as kids.  All my way through my 20s I lived under this and everything I did I would say either internally or externally things like 'it's because of the way I was brought up' etc.

I've been suicidal, I've been in a psychiatric hospital and I've taken all sorts of psychiatric drugs over the years but honestly one of the best things I have done is to draw a line under what has happened in the past and stop blaming everything on it. 

I'm not saying it is easy but it is possible to get away from past behaviours.

It's okay Clairer. I do not blame you at ALL. But that is what I'm talking about in a way. What you meant by that and what I took it as were two different things. And yes this is the internet but I mean miscommunications like that happen to me in real life.

I went through a long time of people going through talks like yours to me and I don't know what to say to them. And I think that it's important to talk sometimes but when I got that over and over everyday for years and it's always negative, I just stopped communicating because I couldn't do anything to stop the (in my mind) harassment.

Eventually that led me to being very upset with the person and my anger getting triggered easily around them and other people.

I don't hold a grudge to the way I was brought up or to the people who raised me. I do however see it as part of me and nothing can make that go away. So I've made my peace with that but I do bring it up to people so they understand me and who I am to hopefully generate a humanistic response.

I've also been in psychiatric hospitals, wards, ect. Although I've been for totally different reasons than what I've explained in this thread.

And I do want to get away from past behaviors - that was the purpose of making this thread. I didn't make this thread just to whine. I made this thread to become a better person. I don't want this issue I have as I'm about to explain to Mags.

...
- I have problems reacting to social cues. Usually I do not pick up on them or I have an inappropriate reaction to it.
...
Could you give us an example of this--Please?

What happened the last time you reacted in an inappropriate way, according to you, or those who "know you." What was said, or done to you, who said it, and how did you react? Just curious.

Also, remember this:

The solution to your problem could be this simple.  ;)

Mags
I...I don't really know what social cues I'm missing because I don't see them at all. And I know that sounds contradictory but that's how it happens. I don't see them happening so I make a reaction that doesn't get me a response I want. Or ones like with claire where I see the thing happening and I don't know the proper response at all.

I go back to when the long, one sided speeches (or harassment as I called it in my response to claire) began to happen. And I was never told what to do to make things better. I was always told to ignore the person and so I did but that did not make them stop. Talking to them did not make them stop, which was my first response before I saw it not working.

So yes it was partly because the person was always making me feel like I was hated, but it was also because nobody around me told me how to handle this person, including the person themself.

It may be fairly accurate o label this person codependant and sought to make me the person they control for their happiness.

I used to be friends with a person in the psych field who began asking me if I was abused near the end of our run as buddies. I was confused every time I had to answer that question because I had to think of exactly how does a girl abuse a guy? I had no answer until I began looking up social cues in relationships and thinking if the intention the "harasser" would sometimes mention.

I do not want to say it's my fault or their failt but the whole thing between us because somehow she was getting upset with me on an almost daily basis while she always pointed out something wrong with me.

I've made this to you long enough so I will just say - yes it is because of assholes and they are gone now but it stuck with me qq

Just to be up front, I'm going to make a lot of generalized statements, but it's done for brevity.  Specific aspects and situations that are brought up could help the focus.  Please let me know if you think I'm off track with what you are wishing to discuss.

With that said, aggressive behavior is rarely ever useful - I say rarely because in some instances like social bonding rituals among males it is often used but in an undirected sense - think moshpits at metal shows, crushing a can on your head at a keg party and yelling "fuck yeah!".  That kind of stuff....and yes, I personally have performed both of those.

In nearly all other situations of interpersonal interaction with folks, aggression isn't useful.  Reservation with acknowledgement whether verbal or body language or both is quite useful.  It is often interpreted as careful consideration or being attentive to what the person has to say.

I'd say in most general conversations I listen a lot, understand the context of what they are saying and then reciprocate with a story of similar theme from my own experience or thoughts.  If there isn't anything like that on your end, general questions about the story or just agreement of the sentiment such as, "yeah man, that's crazy!"

Really all social interaction can be conceptualized as using appropriate "filters" for each situation.  For example, I wouldn't use my "party filter" in a discussion with my boss, for example:

Boss - "Cory, could you explain the results you found with the regression model and what variables the model rejected and why?"

Me - "Yeah sure.  Well ya see, all of those variables were shit except for one.  So I worked all fucking day on that dumbass model for one goddamn variable - fuck that noise! You know what I mean?"

That was an inappropriate filter.  I'd need to use my "work" filter:

Boss - "Cory, could you explain the results you found with the regression model and what variables the model rejected and why?"

Me - "Absolutely.  As the you can see from the print out, the model retained only one variable which accounted for approximately 49% of the variance in the dependent variable.  As to why the model rejected the other variables, it seems to be due to the lack of significant correlation, although a couple of the variables were actually discrete data treated as continuous which  could explain why some predictors were excluded when they were expected to be retained."

As for being more specific with social cues, in many instances simply smiling is helpful as staring blankly is interpreted as distasteful.

One thing to possibly consider is emulation of someone with a high degree of social intelligence.  It is actually a soft skill that employers are not actively looking for as many newer graduates lack that skill.  A generation raised on the internet with minimal human interaction has degraded the available pool of skilled individuals in that area.

There are those who are naturally good at interacting with other people.  I'm not one of those people but I have learned to fake it really well.  It is much like being in a hospitality role - you greet them, smile a lot, ask how they are, ask questions concerning their life and situations you are aware of, display jubilance for their stories of fortune and sympathize with their stories of woe, offer encouraging words, keep smiling, remind them of how happy you were to talk to them, a light touch in a non-threatening area such as upper arm, upper back, or a firm handshake as a parting gesture will leave them with a good sense of their encounter with you.  If they ask about your life, keep the responses short, sweet, and sanitized and let their experiences, concerns, and so forth be the majority of the content of the encounter.  If someone is reluctant or shy about sharing content about themselves be encouraging and reassuring or skip right to the ending with something like, "well, I have to run but it was wonderful to see you again..." *touch on the shoulder nearest you* "...you take care now, and don't work too hard..." *keep smiling as you continue on your way*.

I know a lot of it sounds ridiculous but objectively social interactions are ridiculous.  There are many unwritten rules, conventions, taboos and so forth regarding interactions which all change depending on the situation and environment.  For someone who has a hard time understanding it all or is not accustomed to it all, it can definitely be difficult.

I know much of this is rambling and I'm not even sure if it's actually helpful but I hope at least some of it was useful to you.
SolidSquid
Yes I go through things of a similar theme as well when someone tells a story. And yes that does sound like I do those things. But you didn't need to go through all that to get the reaction out of me.

My problem is as I stated above in my response to Mags and Claire.

Also I've never moshed or crushed a can on my head. I'm not really the kind to get aggressive with my friends (I may have at one point but that's too long ago to remember). I do find aggression okay when you're defending yourself. As in a guy trying to rob you.

Sometimes aggression comes out in ways that I do not want to say on a public forum. And it comes out in a way that I've heard is not how it happens. And I mean this in the most humble of ways that I've gotten angry so fast and reacted so quickly that my conscious self didn't even catch it until I already said or did the thing. That however may have been because I was smoking weed those days during which the events happened.

But the days of smoking are long behind me and hopefully those days of quick extreme anger are too.
But, uh...well there it is.
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joeactor

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 09:56:35 PM »
Hmmm... Interesting thread.

Although I'm not a psychiatrist, I have played one on stage.

To that point, I think good therapy can help, especially with things you've identified that you would like to actively work to change.

However, I also believe in real-world solutions as part of real changes.

Since I see through actor-glasses, have you thought about acting? I mean, I like your YouTube stuff, but it's only a one-way street. Acting on stage, or even in a small class, can give you a different perspective. It also allows you to explore others reactions in a safer space than with close friends. Improv is good too. Plus, the director can help you to see how your interactions affect others in the scene. Kind of like therapy (sort of)

I'll be honest, though. The hardest things to act on stage are those that are closest to ourselves.

Take your time. Practice. Small steps can lead to big changes. Give yourself the space and time to grow into a new way of relating to the world.

If it's something you really want, it's worth the effort.

Good luck!

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 10:11:45 PM »
Joeactor ssid:

Quote
Since I see through actor-glasses, have you thought about acting?

Yeah, role-play therapy is a kind of acting, as acting is a kind of role play! Done well you can experiment and express things safely, so lo g as there is a strong and competent therapist.

Many years ago, at an experimental workshop, we had a session of gobbledegook talking in pairs, expressing emotions only in our faces, body language and voice tone - the "speech" was just meaningless mouth noises, pseudo-language (I seem to be good at that). Strangely cathartic and relaxing, bit of a giggle in fact. One felt some of the emotion, had to to express it visually, but it was "safe" because it was a game.
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Arturo

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 12:33:36 AM »
Joeactor I took the 3 classes for acting in high school because at that point I planned on being an actor. I was also in two plays for the church I used to go to.

I remember being in the 3rd class in high school and only one time I felt what you were describing. The teacher had me and a girl act out a scene in which we argued and that was the only time (in the times I acted)  it felt real. Like a real connection with someone where we knew what we were supposed to do.

I was afraid to hurt her feelings but after so long the acting became more like a recreation of actual events.

But, uh...well there it is.
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joeactor

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Re: I Know You're Not Psychatrists...
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 06:29:06 PM »
Joeactor I took the 3 classes for acting in high school because at that point I planned on being an actor. I was also in two plays for the church I used to go to.

I remember being in the 3rd class in high school and only one time I felt what you were describing. The teacher had me and a girl act out a scene in which we argued and that was the only time (in the times I acted)  it felt real. Like a real connection with someone where we knew what we were supposed to do.

I was afraid to hurt her feelings but after so long the acting became more like a recreation of actual events.

It can definitely tap into real feelings. Like Gloucester says, a competent therapist can help you understand and process what happens with acting and role play.

There's always risk in life. Just depends if the reward is worth the work.