Author Topic: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?  (Read 1377 times)

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2017, 02:19:35 AM »
That's all it is, an admiration.

I found this, let me know if you want to know where this info came from.
Quote
LOKI FACTS AND FIGURES
Name : LOKI
Pronunciation : Coming soon
Alternative names : LOKE, LODER, LOKKJU, LOPTER, LOPTI, LOKI-LAUFEYJARSON
Location : Scandinavia
Gender : Male
Type : deity
In charge of : Mayhem
God of : Trickster, Mischief, Mayhem

Celebration or Feast Day : Unknown at present
Good/Evil Rating : OKAY, not bad
Popularity index : 209228

Maybe that's the god I'll see during my near death experience.  ::)

Didn't we at one time discuss possible afterlives to strive for (if, for argument's sake, they were real) and reach a general consensus that Valhalla was the best one?  I seem to remember a discussion about that.  Anyway, if Valhalla is real, I bet Loki would be in charge of the entertainment.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:31:56 AM by BooksCatsEtc »
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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2017, 02:40:59 AM »
Loki is one of my favourites, even if the Hulk called him a "puny god".  ::)

Spoiler: show




I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Magdalena

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2017, 04:20:08 AM »
Didn't we at one time discuss possible afterlives to strive for (if, for argument's sake, they were real) and reached a general consensus that Valhalla was the best one?  I seem to remember a discussion about that.  Anyway, if Valhalla is real, I bet Loki would be in charge of the entertainment.
Yes, this is true. I remember this discussion.

Loki is one of my favourites, even if the Hulk called him a "puny god".  ::)

Spoiler: show



What the hell!?
Who does he think he is?
Spoiler: show
That Hulk Mother Flower!


“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

"Color me fascinated..." ~Asmodean, The Gray God.

manga

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2017, 04:27:12 AM »
Guys I have looked at some of the videos you have posted. First and foremost, let me say that I love Seinfeld, and George Costanza is my idol. Second, I have seen some of the NDE videos posted here of people who grew up in India. Although there are many similarities as Western accounts (tunnels, hellish realms, life review, seeing a bright light,,) I see there are also differences with people who practice Hindusim (review of past lives, getting rescued from hell by one's father rather than Jesus, being referred to by higher beings as a dog etc) it does seem that there are some cultural differences at play. One of the accounts I saw the Hindu man was an anesthesiologist, and he claims that while he was under anesthesia, that he heard his doctor tell a joke that was later verified, and he claims that he couldn't have been under light anesthesia, as he would have felt pain. He also claims after his NDE that a wrist injury he had was healed, which I am skeptical of. One thing is forsure, these people who have them are completely convinced in their minds that these NDEs are a reality. Because we never hear of a Christian raised in North America commenting on visiting past lives during his or her NDE, and because we never hear of a Hindu person reporting Christian imagery when they were raised in India, I think it is safe to say that it is cultural to some extent. Some pro-NDE fanatics would say they are all the same, but  different people interpret it differently. I don't know if we can really take that claim to heart. Howard Storm's version of hell takes place in the hospital, Rajiv Parti sees darkness with lightening, hears thunder, hears soul's screaming, another NDEr sees fire, the demons are not exactly described as the same. Some report Jesus as a light, others report Jesus with long brown hair, others with ginger hair. I think we can explain most of it. However, I am still confused as to how people under anesthesia can report seeing and hearing things when we know that only 1 in 1000 report awareness during anesthesia. Some NDE researchers have recorded many more OBEs under anesthesia than only 1 in 1000. I think if we could totally debunk OBEs with more target placement tests, then I would be 99.9 percent sure NDEs are not really the soul leaving the body. I mean, Dr. ParNia only took note of 2 NDErs during his whole experiment who had OBEs. Only one took place in a room with objects. One person could easily miss it. However, if we had hundreds or even thousands of people tested with the target identification and no one got it, that would speak volumes. On the other hand, if people did manage to pick off these targets, it would give NDEs new credence. I've said this before, I believe that we have covered about 75 percent of the NDE phenomenon, and maybe 25 percent is still not completely understood, so there is a grey area. These OBEs. I think it is also strange that so many Christians who feel they have been bad, as well as atheists claim to see hell. Although I don't have all these answers, I think it is mostly figured out. I am still a bit worried in case worst comes to worst, but even most of these experiences themselves (even if the person saw hell) end on a positive note, as they get taken out of hell.

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2017, 04:37:26 AM »
Loki is one of my favourites, even if the Hulk called him a "puny god".  ::)

Loki is one of a long line of trickster gods found in many cultures. They tend to be intelligent and sought out for their advice. However, you should take that advice with a grain of salt since trickster gods will give bad advice just so they can sit back and enjoy the ensuing fireworks. Few of the ones I've read about have a deliberately malevolent streak. They usually won't have the intention of causing your death. Yet, if it happens, it is just all part of the glorious chaos. He'll probably miss you - for a bit.

I know in the Norse pantheon, Loki does eventually take things too far and ends up being punished by the other gods. He escapes his punishment just in time to help bring about the end of the world.
Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.~Carl Sagan

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2017, 04:59:19 AM »
1. Although there are many similarities as Western accounts (tunnels, hellish realms, life review, seeing a bright light,,) I see there are also differences with people who practice Hindusim (review of past lives, getting rescued from hell by one's father rather than Jesus, being referred to by higher beings as a dog etc) it does seem that there are some cultural differences at play.

One of the accounts I saw the Hindu man was an anesthesiologist, and he claims that while he was under anesthesia, that he heard his doctor tell a joke that was later verified, and he claims that he couldn't have been under light anesthesia, as he would have felt pain. He also claims after his NDE that a wrist injury he had was healed, which I am skeptical of.

2. One thing is forsure, these people who have them are completely convinced in their minds that these NDEs are a reality. Because we never hear of a Christian raised in North America commenting on visiting past lives during his or her NDE, and because we never hear of a Hindu person reporting Christian imagery when they were raised in India, I think it is safe to say that it is cultural to some extent.

3. Some pro-NDE fanatics would say they are all the same, but  different people interpret it differently.

4. I don't know if we can really take that claim to heart.

5. Howard Storm's version of hell takes place in the hospital, Rajiv Parti sees darkness with lightening, hears thunder, hears soul's screaming, another NDEr sees fire, the demons are not exactly described as the same.

6. Some report Jesus as a light, others report Jesus with long brown hair, others with ginger hair.

7. I think we can explain most of it. However, I am still confused as to how people under anesthesia can report seeing and hearing things when we know that only 1 in 1000 report awareness during anesthesia.

8. Some NDE researchers have recorded many more OBEs under anesthesia than only 1 in 1000.

9. I think if we could totally debunk OBEs with more target placement tests, then I would be 99.9 percent sure NDEs are not really the soul leaving the body. I mean, Dr. ParNia only took note of 2 NDErs during his whole experiment who had OBEs.

a. Only one took place in a room with objects. One person could easily miss it.
b. However, if we had hundreds or even thousands of people tested with the target identification and no one got it, that would speak volumes.
c. On the other hand, if people did manage to pick off these targets, it would give NDEs new credence.

10. I've said this before, I believe that we have covered about 75 percent of the NDE phenomenon,

11. and maybe 25 percent is still not completely understood, so there is a grey area.

12. These OBEs. I think it is also strange that so many Christians who feel they have been bad, as well as atheists claim to see hell.

13.  Although I don't have all these answers, I think it is mostly figured out.

14. I am still a bit worried in case worst comes to worst, but even most of these experiences themselves (even if the person saw hell) end on a positive note, as they get taken out of hell.

So, are we clear now?


“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

"Color me fascinated..." ~Asmodean, The Gray God.

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2017, 05:46:21 AM »
Loki is one of my favourites, even if the Hulk called him a "puny god".  ::)

Loki is one of a long line of trickster gods found in many cultures. They tend to be intelligent and sought out for their advice. However, you should take that advice with a grain of salt since trickster gods will give bad advice just so they can sit back and enjoy the ensuing fireworks. Few of the ones I've read about have a deliberately malevolent streak. They usually won't have the intention of causing your death. Yet, if it happens, it is just all part of the glorious chaos. He'll probably miss you - for a bit.

I know in the Norse pantheon, Loki does eventually take things too far and ends up being punished by the other gods. He escapes his punishment just in time to help bring about the end of the world.

Sounds like the life of the party. ;D
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2017, 05:47:34 AM »
Guys I have looked at some of the videos you have posted. First and foremost, let me say that I love Seinfeld, and George Costanza is my idol. Second, I have seen some of the NDE videos posted here of people who grew up in India. Although there are many similarities as Western accounts (tunnels, hellish realms, life review, seeing a bright light,,) I see there are also differences with people who practice Hindusim (review of past lives, getting rescued from hell by one's father rather than Jesus, being referred to by higher beings as a dog etc) it does seem that there are some cultural differences at play. One of the accounts I saw the Hindu man was an anesthesiologist, and he claims that while he was under anesthesia, that he heard his doctor tell a joke that was later verified, and he claims that he couldn't have been under light anesthesia, as he would have felt pain. He also claims after his NDE that a wrist injury he had was healed, which I am skeptical of. One thing is forsure, these people who have them are completely convinced in their minds that these NDEs are a reality. Because we never hear of a Christian raised in North America commenting on visiting past lives during his or her NDE, and because we never hear of a Hindu person reporting Christian imagery when they were raised in India, I think it is safe to say that it is cultural to some extent. Some pro-NDE fanatics would say they are all the same, but  different people interpret it differently. I don't know if we can really take that claim to heart. Howard Storm's version of hell takes place in the hospital, Rajiv Parti sees darkness with lightening, hears thunder, hears soul's screaming, another NDEr sees fire, the demons are not exactly described as the same. Some report Jesus as a light, others report Jesus with long brown hair, others with ginger hair. I think we can explain most of it. However, I am still confused as to how people under anesthesia can report seeing and hearing things when we know that only 1 in 1000 report awareness during anesthesia. Some NDE researchers have recorded many more OBEs under anesthesia than only 1 in 1000. I think if we could totally debunk OBEs with more target placement tests, then I would be 99.9 percent sure NDEs are not really the soul leaving the body. I mean, Dr. ParNia only took note of 2 NDErs during his whole experiment who had OBEs. Only one took place in a room with objects. One person could easily miss it. However, if we had hundreds or even thousands of people tested with the target identification and no one got it, that would speak volumes. On the other hand, if people did manage to pick off these targets, it would give NDEs new credence. I've said this before, I believe that we have covered about 75 percent of the NDE phenomenon, and maybe 25 percent is still not completely understood, so there is a grey area. These OBEs. I think it is also strange that so many Christians who feel they have been bad, as well as atheists claim to see hell. Although I don't have all these answers, I think it is mostly figured out. I am still a bit worried in case worst comes to worst, but even most of these experiences themselves (even if the person saw hell) end on a positive note, as they get taken out of hell.

Seems like you're making some progress. Baby steps.
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


xSilverPhinx

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2017, 05:48:28 AM »
Didn't we at one time discuss possible afterlives to strive for (if, for argument's sake, they were real) and reached a general consensus that Valhalla was the best one?  I seem to remember a discussion about that.  Anyway, if Valhalla is real, I bet Loki would be in charge of the entertainment.
Yes, this is true. I remember this discussion.

Loki is one of my favourites, even if the Hulk called him a "puny god".  ::)

Spoiler: show



What the hell!?
Who does he think he is?
Spoiler: show
That Hulk Mother Flower!


The Hulk's just green with envy...
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2017, 07:25:27 AM »
The Hulk will smash anyone who crosses him. I mean like smash them into a bloody fucking mess of just blood and dirt. If you were in a car, he would crush the car with you in it. If you were rocketing into space, he would ground you faster than shit on taco Tuesday. I mean, Hulk is really strong guys.
But, uh...well there it is.
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BooksCatsEtc

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2017, 01:50:49 PM »
This seems appropriate to leave here: FAQ: Do You Ever Still Worry About Hell?

Neil Carter is an atheist who used to be a devout Xtian (was even a pastor, or at least a lay pastor, at one point, I believe) and now writes the blog Godless in Dixie.  I've shared a number of his posts because I find him very on point, at least as far as my own experiences go.

For instance: 

Quote
There are a number of other things I could say, but for now I’m just passing along the above exchange with my friend because it’s a gut-level honest response. I really don’t struggle with fear of Hell anymore because enough time and thinking have transpired to cause that sensation to fade for me beyond recognition.

The funny thing about Hell is that the fear of it often sticks around long after a person has decided she no longer even believes it makes any sense. One can even lose all discernible belief in God, and yet still somehow fear that she will be punished one day for doing so. It’s not a logical process because at its bottom, faith isn’t ultimately a rational process, but an emotional and social one. It’s rooted in sentiment more than logic.

The "fading away" is what happened to me -- after awhile, it was just impossible to care whether it was real or not, and if I might be headed there after I'm dead.  It's like the flip side of manga's being ruled by fear despite all logical arguments -- I'm ruled by indifference despite all testimony and YouTube videos.
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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2017, 02:07:58 PM »
Good link, Books  :thumbsup:

The points made, though seemingly mutually antagonistic at first, are very important. Fears of imaginary things can fade with knowledge and time yet that which is instilled, especially during the formative years, is a, er, devil of a job to get rid of!

With enough brainwashing the border between inaginary and real can be rather thin in the mind. It takes an independence of spirit, a strength of will, as our friend manga is exhibiting, to strengthen that border and separate the two.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2017, 09:05:46 PM »
I like the whole aversive memories thing, and my undergraduate end of course work was with memory precision versus generalization in adolescents (a mechanism underpinning some anxiety disorders such as Posttraumatic Stress Disorder and Generalised Anxiety Disorder) so your case got me thinking, manga. Do you consider yourself an anxious person?

I'll try not to get too carried away. :grin:

Memories, after consolidated, can go through two processes with time: extinction and reconsolidation. The main difference between the two is that extinction is a new memory, weaker, which overlaps and suppresses the fear memory. Reconsolidation, on the other hand, is a modification of the original memory. Both are therapeutic targets for people undergoing treatment for anxiety and phobias (for instance, in exposure therapy). Of the two, extinction is much easier to achieve but there is a problem: the original fear memory is still there, dormant, but can come back much stronger than before at a later time point (called spontaneous recovery).

The amygdala is a brain structure made up of many small parts that are implicated in fear memories. On the other hand, the prefrontal cortex, among other things, regulates the amygdala in order to create emotional control and resilience. The problem here is that the prefrontal cortex matures late in development, some authors putting the number at around 30 years of age, others at around 23-26. Either way, adolescents are basically screwed when it comes to emotional regulation. Yeah, that explains why terrible emo songs are popular amongst some, why some take to writing bad poetry and of course, that special kind of tantrum, teenage outbursts.  ;)

As for what to do when the fear hits you...I don't know. Some sort of feedback mechanism could work. When I was around your age I underwent a weird kind of therapy in which I had my skin conductance measured while put through an anxiety-inducing task which translated the conductance level into sound that I could hear. The more anxious I felt, the more high pitched the sound became. I learnt after a few trials to lower the pitch through voluntary control. It was all very interesting. :smilenod:

Since it's impractical to carry such equipment around I then learnt to transfer that to trying be aware of my breathing and control it. It might help.
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2017, 12:34:33 PM »
That's all it is, an admiration.

I found this, let me know if you want to know where this info came from.
Quote
LOKI FACTS AND FIGURES
Name : LOKI
Pronunciation : Coming soon
Alternative names : LOKE, LODER, LOKKJU, LOPTER, LOPTI, LOKI-LAUFEYJARSON
Location : Scandinavia
Gender : Male
Type : deity
In charge of : Mayhem
God of : Trickster, Mischief, Mayhem

Celebration or Feast Day : Unknown at present
Good/Evil Rating : OKAY, not bad
Popularity index : 209228

Maybe that's the god I'll see during my near death experience.  ::)

He's the guy who keeps showing up in those Allstate commercials:   

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Re: Scared of Hell, do you think this is accurate?
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2017, 02:13:44 PM »
This seems appropriate to leave here: FAQ: Do You Ever Still Worry About Hell?

Neil Carter is an atheist who used to be a devout Xtian (was even a pastor, or at least a lay pastor, at one point, I believe) and now writes the blog Godless in Dixie.  I've shared a number of his posts because I find him very on point, at least as far as my own experiences go.

For instance: 

Quote
There are a number of other things I could say, but for now I’m just passing along the above exchange with my friend because it’s a gut-level honest response. I really don’t struggle with fear of Hell anymore because enough time and thinking have transpired to cause that sensation to fade for me beyond recognition.

The funny thing about Hell is that the fear of it often sticks around long after a person has decided she no longer even believes it makes any sense. One can even lose all discernible belief in God, and yet still somehow fear that she will be punished one day for doing so. It’s not a logical process because at its bottom, faith isn’t ultimately a rational process, but an emotional and social one. It’s rooted in sentiment more than logic.

The "fading away" is what happened to me -- after awhile, it was just impossible to care whether it was real or not, and if I might be headed there after I'm dead.  It's like the flip side of manga's being ruled by fear despite all logical arguments -- I'm ruled by indifference despite all testimony and YouTube videos.
I've been here long enough now that I can't remember if I've talked about certain things here. So I apologize if this is a repeat, but I must say thank you for this link, Books. Neil Carter (Godless in Dixie) is probably my favorite blogger because I relate so much to almost everything he writes.
Manga, you really should browse around his posts and see if anything resonates with you.
From this particular article, this is my favorite paragraph:
Quote
On top of that, I spent too many years asking God to turn up and show me something… anything… to change my mind. I mean if I’m really headed for something that terrifying, then he’s gonna have to do something to make me understand it’s all real. If he’s real and if he’s anything like they say he is, then he KNOWS me…he KNOWS what it would take to change my mind. And surely he would be capable of doing whatever that is, just like materializing for Thomas. Is he no longer capable of doing such things? And why not?
And why didn't he do that for me? And why isn't he doing that for you? God should know that faith is destroyed by overwhelming evidence that dismantled the belief system. If God is God, it seems that he would want to offer something to us to convince us, and therefore save us, his precious children,  from the dark fiery torment of an eternal hell.
But there is a deafening silence....
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)