Istanbul Airport Bombing

[Magdalena]

"Thank you very much, have a nice day."

OK. I'll try, but after that post, it's not gonna be easy. 

[Davin]

Perhaps I never should have posted to begin with,  often times my anger gets the best of me. But, I have already posted, so here goes.

[More preaching]

Thank you very much, have a nice day.

No thanks. Not only did you not add anything, but you just preached all over again by making claims and refusing to discuss those claims. That is boring and useless. Oh well.

[No one]

No thanks. Not only did you not add anything, but you just preached all over again by making claims and refusing to discuss those claims. That is boring and useless. Oh well.

Um, NO!
My point of view is my point of view. What don't you get about that? What? What do you want to discuss? There is nothing to discuss. They way I feel is the way I feel, there is no changing it. You are free to say YOUR point of view. I still will Not agree with you. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. So go ahead and say what you will, and I will do the same. I am not trying to convert you, nor I am I trying to get you to come around to my way of thinking. Your definition of preaching is entirely different than mine. As I have said numerous times, I truly do respect your differing opinion on the matter.

[Firebird]

If someone were to go on a rampage and start systematically exterminating them, starting with the children, I would not shed a single tear. There would not be an ounce of remorse. As a matter of fact, just like them I would celebrate in the streets. Honestly, I have more compassion for the cockroach then I do for these things. You can not dehumanize a virus.
Now do I know that not all muslims are bad, of course I do. Do I care if they all die, absolutely not.

So does that include my wife's family? They're not extremists by any means (they're lovely people, in fact), but they are Muslim.

[Ali]

Well, then I don't see why the Istanbul attack should anger you. The majority of the people who died were Turkish (including some small children) and since Turkey is a Muslim country, they were probably mostly Muslim. So you got your wish!

And now I think I may have to excuse myself from the conversation for a bit, so that Tank doesn't have to smack me with his ban hammer for breaking HAF's civility rule. I'm fresh out of civility at the mo.

[Dave]

No thanks. Not only did you not add anything, but you just preached all over again by making claims and refusing to discuss those claims. That is boring and useless. Oh well.

Um, NO!
My point of view is my point of view. What don't you get about that? What? What do you want to discuss? There is nothing to discuss. They way I feel is the way I feel, there is no changing it. You are free to say YOUR point of view. I still will Not agree with you. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. So go ahead and say what you will, and I will do the same. I am not trying to convert you, nor I am I trying to get you to come around to my way of thinking. Your definition of preaching is entirely different than mine. As I have said numerous times, I truly do respect your differing opinion on the matter.

But if your pov is evidently so far from the norm of any environment it is a bit silly to promote or defend it.

Better to find a forum that has similar attitudes so you don't get "negative" responses and feel the need to get defensive?

Offering an arguement, even a controversial one, for discussion is one thing but . . .

[Davin]

No thanks. Not only did you not add anything, but you just preached all over again by making claims and refusing to discuss those claims. That is boring and useless. Oh well.

Um, NO!
My point of view is my point of view. What don't you get about that?

I understand that it's your point of view, but expressing your point of view while refusing to address points made against your claims, is preaching. It doesn't matter what your supposed intentions are, that's definition this forum has given to preaching. Mostly it is religious folk (like pahu), who "just post like, their opinions, man," and refuse to discuss them, but I think it applies here to. If you don't want to discuss and you don't want to be preaching, then why are you expressing your "opinion" to us?

If you just want to get it out of your system, then talking to a wall will do.

If you just want to express it to other people and don't want to discuss it, then that is preaching.

If you want to express it and test whether it's a good thing to hold, then you would be willing to discuss and honestly consider whether the idea you hold is wrong.

Edit: the forum rules:
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.msg18210#msg18210

NO PREACHING:  While everyone is welcome to discuss their views in a civil manner, this forum is not a podium for those that only wish to preach.  This rule applies to atheists and theists alike. Preaching means stating your beliefs without providing evidence.  If directly asked what you believe you may answer but it would then become against the rules if you were to then refuse to back up your views objectively when honestly challenged.  This means that if you want to use your religious text to prove your deity, for instance, you will also need to be prepared to prove that your religious text is an objective source of evidence.

[Ali]

No thanks. Not only did you not add anything, but you just preached all over again by making claims and refusing to discuss those claims. That is boring and useless. Oh well.

Um, NO!
My point of view is my point of view. What don't you get about that? What? What do you want to discuss? There is nothing to discuss. They way I feel is the way I feel, there is no changing it. You are free to say YOUR point of view. I still will Not agree with you. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. So go ahead and say what you will, and I will do the same. I am not trying to convert you, nor I am I trying to get you to come around to my way of thinking. Your definition of preaching is entirely different than mine. As I have said numerous times, I truly do respect your differing opinion on the matter.

But if your pov is evidently so far from the norm of any environment it is a bit silly to promote or defend it.

Better to find a forum that has similar attitudes so you don't get "negative" responses and feel the need to get defensive?

Offering an arguement, even a controversial one, for discussion is one thing but . . .

I actually wouldn't mind debating it. I would still find the view repugnant, but this whole "these are my (horrible) thoughts on the matter but I won't debate them because no one is going to change their mind" thing is infuriating as well as repugnant.

[Magdalena]

I actually wouldn't mind debating it. I would still find the view repugnant, but this whole "these are my (horrible) thoughts on the matter but I won't debate them because no one is going to change their mind" thing is infuriating as well as repugnant.

I've felt what you're feeling, this, "infuriating" feeling when I've read some posts here. That's why my vato loco tells me all the time, "Why don't you stop going to that forum--esa? You pick up all that bad energy from all those angry people and then you bring it here, with us." --He's right. 

The terrorists infuriated No one, now he/she will infuriate others, and it will never end.--Maybe anger and fear are contagious. No one has said many times, "these are my  thoughts on the matter but I won't debate them because no one is going to change my mind." This time, I will listen, and I'll leave No one alone with his/her anger. 

I know it's difficult to hear someone say, "A certain group of people should die, now leave me alone." 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

So I think No One's basic philosophy is "fight fire with fire" and "do unto others as they do unto you. " I can understand his rage against ISIS et al.  But so far their body count in the West is not so large to justify a scorched earth policy, IMHO.  Now, at some point, it could escalate to a Hiroshima, but have we reached that point?  They are vile, without question.  I just think they can be managed without turning the whole ME into glass.  Dunno, we'll see.

[xSilverPhinx]

No One's point of view is completely irrational, emotional, and you can't reason with someone who isn't thinking but feeling. 

If someone were to go on a rampage and start systematically exterminating them, starting with the children, I would not shed a single tear. There would not be an ounce of remorse. As a matter of fact, just like them I would celebrate in the streets. Honestly, I have more compassion for the cockroach then I do for these things. You can not dehumanize a virus.
Now do I know that not all muslims are bad, of course I do. Do I care if they all die, absolutely not.

All that hate, No One? It doesn't make sense. Did you lose someone to terrorism or is it all programming?

[Icarus]

It is mid afternoon here in the US. The news has a shooting and hostage situation at a bakery/restaurant in Daka Bangladesh.  The reports say that their are about 40 hostages and several people are dead from gunshots. 

Bangladesh is predominantly Muslim. Chances are that most of those who were shot and most of the hostages are also Muslims.  More of the same kind of madness is occurring all over the map.

I might go along, conditionally, with No One in that it would be permissible to kill the hostage takers and shooters. That ends it there for me because I have no wish, or reason,  to destroy innocent people.

If we did  set out to annihilate a whole segment of society we will have made more enemies than we can possibly kill. A geometric progression of enemies bent on our destruction is not in our best interest. Why is that hard to understand?

[Ali]

It is mid afternoon here in the US. The news has a shooting and hostage situation at a bakery/restaurant in Daka Bangladesh.  The reports say that their are about 40 hostages and several people are dead from gunshots. 

Bangladesh is predominantly Muslim. Chances are that most of those who were shot and most of the hostages are also Muslims.  More of the same kind of madness is occurring all over the map.

I might go along, conditionally, with No One in that it would be permissible to kill the hostage takers and shooters. That ends it there for me because I have no wish, or reason,  to destroy innocent people.

If we did  set out to annihilate a whole segment of society we will have made more enemies than we can possibly kill. A geometric progression of enemies bent on our destruction is not in our best interest. Why is that hard to understand?

I rarely invoke Godwin's Rule, but not only is it a bad plan, killing somewhere around a billion people indiscriminately based on their religion would *literally* make us worse than Hitler.

[Dave]

It is mid afternoon here in the US. The news has a shooting and hostage situation at a bakery/restaurant in Daka Bangladesh.  The reports say that their are about 40 hostages and several people are dead from gunshots. 

Bangladesh is predominantly Muslim. Chances are that most of those who were shot and most of the hostages are also Muslims.  More of the same kind of madness is occurring all over the map.

I might go along, conditionally, with No One in that it would be permissible to kill the hostage takers and shooters. That ends it there for me because I have no wish, or reason,  to destroy innocent people.

If we did  set out to annihilate a whole segment of society we will have made more enemies than we can possibly kill. A geometric progression of enemies bent on our destruction is not in our best interest. Why is that hard to understand?

One aspect that I often have to consider when I see news of these sort of events is the fundamental difference in culture, in mindset, between the Western way of thinking and - especially - the extreme Muslim way.

Suicide bombers do it because to die for their faith gives them martyrdom and access to Paradise - for the "true believer" a prize greater than anything acheivable whilst alive.

Killing such makes little difference to them, they have still died for the faith. Those bystanders of the true faith -
Sunni - (Shi'ites, to Daesh and Al Q, are not members of the true faith, possibly they are worse than Christians or Jews) who are killed have also been given an, involuntary, status of martyrdom and are to be praised.

Foreigners or those of the wrong or no faith, of course, get what they deserve for not accepting Allah and his prophet.

Theirs is truly an alien mindset for most of us. I had a third generation in UK Moslem acquaintance who was offended when, on being introduced to his mother, I held her hand in greeting. An automatic reaction for me was an offence to him. His mum grinned beautifully!

We can judge on Western/non-Muslim values but does our judgement mean anything to the strict Muslim? Nope, endless hours of disgusted newsmen and politicians are meaningless to them, probably gives them a feeling of achievenent. For us to be "on edge" all the time over our security and safety is a psychological victory for them.

This is an "assymetric war" where each side sticks to completely opposing sets of rules - there are no "innocents" in the Islamist mindset. Even those "collateral killings", that can be used against Western values in propaganda, die either for the faith or because they deserve to within the Islamist mind.

Sorry for any typos, still in bed and far from "proper" keyboard!

[Icarus]

 July 3, Breaking news tells us the we have another serious killing event in Baghdad. Will the madness ever stop?