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Are babies atheist?

Started by hackenslash, May 26, 2016, 11:47:24 AM

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hackenslash

New post up: Are Babies Atheist? Semantics and Communication.

This is a treatment of a common derail in discourse with apologists. Also a treatment of PZ Myers' 'dictionary atheists' rant.

http://reciprocity-giving-something-back.blogspot.com/2016/05/are-babies-atheists-semantics-and.html
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

Bad Penny II

I think some of them are Satanist.
Not your laid back man of wealth and taste Satanists.
The make every living thing wish they never were sort.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Siz

Well, in hindsight, I'd always been 'ic, if not 'ist...

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Bad Penny II

Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Pasta Chick

My research indicates babies are self worshipping, much like the Asmo



hackenslash

There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

Asmodean

Quote from: Pasta Chick on May 26, 2016, 05:30:33 PM
My research indicates babies are self worshipping, much like the Asmo
Yep. Utter narcissistic sociopaths.  ;D
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Kekerusey

J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires


Tank

No. Babies are not atheists.

To be an atheist one has to have been exposed to the concept of theism to come to the conclusion that a theistic god does not exist. As babies have no concept of a theistic god they can not be an atheist. They don't know about anything.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Kekerusey

Quote from: Tank on September 02, 2016, 07:52:23 AMNo. Babies are not atheists.

To be an atheist one has to have been exposed to the concept of theism to come to the conclusion that a theistic god does not exist. As babies have no concept of a theistic god they can not be an atheist. They don't know about anything.

I disagree ... "theist" means to be "with god" , the "a" prefix in "atheist" reverses the sense of the word. Babies do not yet know of god or gods (they are without god/gods) so they are, by definition, "atheist". To become a "theist" is a "learned" thing IMO.

Keke
J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires


Tank

Quote from: Kekerusey on September 02, 2016, 10:07:30 AM
Quote from: Tank on September 02, 2016, 07:52:23 AMNo. Babies are not atheists.

To be an atheist one has to have been exposed to the concept of theism to come to the conclusion that a theistic god does not exist. As babies have no concept of a theistic god they can not be an atheist. They don't know about anything.

I disagree ... "theist" means to be "with god" , the "a" prefix in "atheist" reverses the sense of the word. Babies do not yet know of god or gods (they are without god/gods) so they are, by definition, "atheist". To become a "theist" is a "learned" thing IMO.

Keke
No. You agree with me. A baby knows nothing. So it can't be a theist or an atheist.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Kekerusey

Quote from: Tank on September 02, 2016, 12:45:20 PMNo. You agree with me. A baby knows nothing. So it can't be a theist or an atheist.

No I don't Tank, I believe that babies are clearly atheist based on exactly what I said before (on not being theist).

Keke
J C Rocks (An Aspiring Author's Journey)
The Abyssal Void War Book #1: Stars, Hide Your Fires


Asmodean

Some call babies agnostic, but going with gnosticism pertaining to (claimed) knowledge and theism to professed beliefs, babies do default to atheism. Knowledge is not all that relevant here.

This is a semantic argument, really. Atheism spans from those without a belief in gods for whom religion is not an issue (Also called apatheism by some) to those who actively, sometimes militantly, identify with their non-belief. Put the degrees of caring within atheism on an x-axis of a graph, and babies and people with certain disabilities will fall within the leftmost group. Replace caring with the degrees of knowledge and you will get the same result. They are still atheist.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Davin

An atheist is just a person that lacks a belief in a god or gods. In that case, I agree with Kekerusey here (and many other people as well), that babies are people who do not believe in a god or gods. That doesn't mean that all atheists are babies, not does it mean anything useful in regards to babies. But the utility is not in discussing theism about babies, the utility is a consistent definition.

But then I got to thinking about our ignorance of the thoughts of babies. Because we can't talk about things with babies (nor do we presently have any other reliable means to discover their thoughts), they might develop some kind of concept of a deity that we wouldn't know about. We know if that ever happens or, if it does happen, how often it happens. Which means that speculation is fine, but discussing the beliefs of a baby is rather pointless and useless.

With this definition, things that are not people cannot be an atheist, so cars, rocks, and shoes, not being people, are not atheists just because they too lack belief in a god or gods.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

Are babies people? As in persons rather than humans?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.