Author Topic: Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again  (Read 1908 times)

OldGit

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« on: December 14, 2014, 03:30:54 AM »
Most of these are more or less right, though many don't show understanding of the reasons.  Several tell only part of the story (e.g. 9, 11,13).  7 and 17 are plain wrong.  Interesting, though.  Thanks, Fernanda.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2014, 05:43:28 AM »
Quote
War comes from a Germanic root that meant "to confuse"

Is this correct?

Quote
Nightmare comes from an old English word "mare" that refers to a demon who suffocates you in your sleep

As for nightmare I came across other sources that say that 'mare' is the Old English word for 'incubus' and 'demon'.

It isn't the case?
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Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 10:11:52 AM »
Quote
War comes from a Germanic root that meant "to confuse"

Is this correct?

The Oxford English Dictionary gives a more nuanced etymology:

Quote
Late Old English (c1050) wyrre , werre , < North-eastern Old French werre = Central Old French and modern French guerre , Proven?al guerra , gerra , Spanish guerra , Portuguese guerra , Italian guerra (medieval Latin werra , guerra ) < Old High German werra (Middle High German werre ) confusion, discord, strife, related to the Old High German, Old Saxon werran strong verb, to bring into confusion or discord (whence modern German wirren weak verb to confuse, perplex; the earlier verb survives in verworren participial adjective, confused), < Germanic root *werz- , *wers- , whence also worse adj.

It is a curious fact that no Germanic nation in early historic times had in living use any word properly meaning ?war?, though several words with that meaning survived in poetry, in proverbial phrases, and in compound personal names. The Romanic-speaking peoples, who were obliged to avoid the Latin bellum on account of its formal coincidence with bello- beautiful, found no nearer equivalent in Germanic than werra. In Old English the usual translation of bellum was gewin, struggle, strife. The continental Germanic languages later developed separate words for ?war?: German krieg (whence Swedish, Danish krig), Dutch oorlog; Icelandic uses ?fri?r ?un-peace?.


[Bold emphasis mine. -- R]
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 04:22:30 PM by Recusant »
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OldGit

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 11:18:05 AM »
Fernanda, the Online Etymology Dictionary is very trustworthy indeed, but entries are not always as complete as one would wish - Recusant's Oxford ED entry illustrates that.   Here the two disagree as to the original, primary meaning of the root, Oxford ED taking it to be the 'confuse' sense and the Net Dictionary as 'strife'.  I always thought the latter was basic, however in the end both meanings existed in the oldest Germanic languages and in Modern German both are still around.

As to 'nightmare', I grovel in apology.  I thought I knew the ultimate meaning of mare; I was sure it was retained in German M?rchen.  I should have double-checked, but I didn't.  Now I have egg on my face.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 02:28:54 PM »
No worries, OG  :)

« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 04:00:47 PM by xSilverPhinx »
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 04:00:32 PM »
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


OldGit

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 02:49:43 AM »
There are some lovely ones there. 

We could use more such words, such as pofflecrunt (Gittish) - to rub horse manure into a bishop's chasuble, or clurgie (Mock-Scots Gittish)  -a goyling sound not unlike the grackle of a heucht.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 03:05:45 AM »
There are some lovely ones there. 

We could use more such words, such as pofflecrunt (Gittish) - to rub horse manure into a bishop's chasuble, or clurgie (Mock-Scots Gittish)  -a goyling sound not unlike the grackle of a heucht.

I like those! :D
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jumbojak

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2014, 08:21:29 AM »
I like the idea of grief bacon. Hell, I like the idea of any kind of bacon. :}
 

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Tom62

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 02:04:15 PM »
I like the Dutch word "snuffelpaal" (sniffling pole"), which is an air pollution detector 
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 04:42:37 PM »
I like the Dutch word "snuffelpaal" (sniffling pole"), which is an air pollution detector  

That's a funny way of putting it!
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Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 05:42:13 PM »
By the way, I'm glad that your mother liked the pronunciation sites, xSilverPhinx:)
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 10:46:01 PM »
By the way, I'm glad that your mother liked the pronunciation sites, xSilverPhinx:)

:) She said that they were perfect, and she especially liked especially Forvo.

Ent?o, como est? indo seu portugu?s? (So, how's your portuguese coming along?)
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Recusant

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 12:33:11 AM »
Miserably.  ;D

I have a smattering of French and German from school (much too long ago), and enough Spanish to kind of muddle through, but that is actually kind of messing with my attempt at Portuguese. I'll probably just try to learn to say a few things like "I'm very sorry, but I can't speak Portuguese."  ;)
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


xSilverPhinx

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Re: I Need Help From All You Native Speakers Once Again
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 03:06:39 AM »
Nothing a good travel phrasebook can't help with. ;D If you get one then just see that the pronunciation guide is European Portuguese and not Brazilian because they can differ quite a bit. Orthography is the same in both but they have some different grammatical preferences. Nothing that poses too much of a barrier, though.  Sometimes we have a hard time understanding each other's speech. :D

The shortest, and easiest way to remember, way of saying that would be "Desculpe, mas n?o falo portugu?s." If you want to ask whether they speak English/Spanish then you could ask "Fala ingl?s/espanhol?"
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