Author Topic: Bickering and Banning | Split From: New kid on the block.  (Read 6836 times)

Tank

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2012, 10:13:00 PM »
I'd rather you didn't call me pathetic. I think that both Tank and En_route have acted poorly towards each other in the past. I don't think I'm "crowding around" anyone, simply stating that, all things being considered, I think the ban was justified in the end. If En_route was able to defend his position without name calling or playing the passive-aggressive "go ahead and ban me" route (twice), I'd agree that banning him would be completely uncalled for. But we do have civility rules here, whether anyone likes them or not, and I think he consistently violated them far more than any moderator.

I wasn't calling anyone pathetic, just that gang mentality which is easy to get caught up in without realising.

Point out which civility rules he broke apart from the stuff with McQ.

I'm not a moderator, so I don't get to make the calls on what's "civilized", but this was his response to McQ who said that ER was acting belligerent with "even him".

Quote
"Even with me". You need to get over yourself.Now exercise the power that obviously gives you such a thrill, and lends you that sense of importance which it is safe to assume is lacking elsewhere in your life, and exclude me from your charmed circle.  

Then he got on with his "ban me" nonsense, which ended in a stalemate. But not before he went to the "true or false" forum (completely unrelated to any of the disagreements), where posted the following.


Quote
No, but I have grown tired of being patronised by some self-important third-raters (you know who you are).

I don't see why either of those situations required him to get personal and, frankly, that combined with his apparent inability to ever let anyone else get the last word doesn't give me the most sympathy for him. I do agree that Tank probably had a pretty short fuse with him last going off, and the merit of his responses are debatable but, like Siz, I don't know if I would have had much more restraint if I was in his place. Actually, when En_route and I got into it a few months ago, I pm'd Tank and asked him to keep me accountable because I was afraid I might start saying something uncivil/that I'd regret. Tank's response to me wasn't "Oh yeah, I like you better! Fuck that guy!" It was a very reasonable "you guys probably won't agree on this issue, try to calm down, etc."

After all of this happened, I did come to kind of like En_route and I'm not jumping up and down with joy to see him go. I just don't see what else could have happened if he was unwilling to change how he handles conflict.

So he'd been slagging of the staff here on another forum?
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DeterminedJuliet

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2012, 10:20:39 PM »
Oops! Thread! thread! No, it was here.
In the "true and false" thread. Sorry about that.
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

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Re: Bickering and Banning | Split From: New kid on the block.
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2012, 10:32:36 PM »
I'm a bit surprised at this actually. Isn't a permanent ban a bit much? :-\

Though En Route was a bit annoying in some threads, his posts were valid contributions IMO.

I also find it very annoying that he added the "go ahead, ban me" comment. If someone wants to just leave, just leave. But to make a mod ban you is a little like seeking some weird form of martyrdom that I find so annoying. ::)

I'm just annoyed today. ::)
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Tank

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2012, 10:45:15 PM »
Oops! Thread! thread! No, it was here.
In the "true and false" thread. Sorry about that.
Ah! Ok.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
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BooksCatsEtc

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2012, 11:03:57 PM »

When the mods have said prior that they won't ban anyone even if they ask for it, they will only ban them for breaking the rules, which he didn't. If he did bully SD then point it out to me because I certainly can't see it.

I don't want to get caught up in a pointless argument (tho that does seem to be in my nature) but I'll try to clear up the "ban me" reaction since DJ already handled the "pathetic" remark.

I know the moderators don't ban people just because they ask for it, and I think that's a good rule.  However, somebody literally asking to be banned does cause me, as a bystander, to lose sympathy for their position.  That's probably unfair on my part, but there it is.

For the record, I did not consider En_Route's question bullying and frankly, I would have liked to have seen an answer to it.  Also for the record, I do think he acted like enough of an ass to be banned.
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DeterminedJuliet

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2012, 11:05:34 PM »
For the record, I did not consider En_Route's question bullying and frankly, I would have liked to have seen an answer to it. 

I agree with this, too.
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2012, 11:06:39 PM »
DJ (sorry for not quoting)

If you look at all the times E_R became uncivil it was due to him getting mod warnings for something when he didn't break any rules, unless the civility rules for some reason prevent asking questions and challenging other opinions. I'm not using this to justify the responses but at times has seemed like baiting. The point I am trying to make is that when E_R has been flagged up in mod mode it has been for unfair reasons especially when others have made downright racist and bigoted comments that have never been flagged up by mods. The civility rules only seem to be enforced when they suit people and this always seems to coincide when a mod disagrees with a member, or the civility rules apply to some and not others.
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DeterminedJuliet

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2012, 11:14:32 PM »
DJ (sorry for not quoting)

If you look at all the times E_R became uncivil it was due to him getting mod warnings for something when he didn't break any rules, unless the civility rules for some reason prevent asking questions and challenging other opinions. I'm not using this to justify the responses but at times has seemed like baiting. The point I am trying to make is that when E_R has been flagged up in mod mode it has been for unfair reasons especially when others have made downright racist and bigoted comments that have never been flagged up by mods. The civility rules only seem to be enforced when they suit people and this always seems to coincide when a mod disagrees with a member, or the civility rules apply to some and not others.

I think you have a valid point, but it still becomes a question on how best to handle un-fair treatment. Should people be allowed to act however they like if they're not being treated fairly? If the mods are being inconsistent, and we're bothered by it, shouldn't we point out those circumstances rather than getting personal with each other?

Again, for instance, when ER and I were arguing, a mod came in and told us BOTH to knock it off. So I did. I left the thread and didn't post again. ER just could NOT seem to do this. He kept posting, started directing his posts to people in a personal manner (he compared us to theists, I think) and wouldn't stop until he got the last word in (which he did).

If you have an issue with how some things are done here, I think that's valid, but I just really have a hard time feeling like he was a victim in all of this. ETA: Also, personally, I can't really think of another member who acted uncivil (got personally insulting with another poster) and wasn't reprimanded for it because of a mod's personal feelings. Maybe it happened, but I can't really think of any?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 11:17:54 PM by DeterminedJuliet »
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Stevil

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Re: Bickering and Banning | Split From: New kid on the block.
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2012, 11:17:45 PM »
Dang, twas enjoying having another person around that understands amoralism.

For the most part I enjoyed En Route's posts. But he did ask for the ban, so he got it.
I don't think there was any benefit from making a personal insult onto tank.

That skirmish escalated way too quickly though.

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Re: Bickering and Banning | Split From: New kid on the block.
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2012, 11:28:33 PM »
After a while the whole thing does sound a bit funny.

"Go ahead. Ban me if you dare."

Slow realization that the growing shadow on the floor surrounding him is Tank's Ban Hammer closing in.

No, Wai-!

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Tank

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Re: Bickering and Banning | Split From: New kid on the block.
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2012, 11:35:09 PM »
Dang, twas enjoying having another person around that understands amoralism.

For the most part I enjoyed En Route's posts. But he did ask for the ban, so he got it.
I don't think there was any benefit from making a personal insult onto tank.

That skirmish escalated way too quickly though.
I read every new post here every day (I can't be the only one) and have done since I joined. Sometimes it just comes down to pattern recognition. 95% of ER posts were fine, but he was regularly pushing his luck with low level personal attacks, passive aggressive nastiness and low level bullying more and more. Maybe I did load the gun, maybe I did hand it to him, but he chose to pulled the trigger. If he had had any respect for the rest of the forum and it's members he'd have taken the point I made and rephrased his question and carried on. As it was he didn't so he's gone. He knew he was gone when he made the "Go on. Ban me." comment. He didn't do that for any good reason.

Sorry to have shot your debate partner.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
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'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

Tank

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Re: Bickering and Banning | Split From: New kid on the block.
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2012, 11:40:21 PM »
After a while the whole thing does sound a bit funny.

"Go ahead. Ban me if you dare."

Slow realization that the growing shadow on the floor surrounding him is Tank's Ban Hammer closing in.

No, Wai-!

Ploft.
I can't stand passive aggressive bullying in real life and I sure as hell am not going to put up with it here; it's about as uncivil as one can get.
I once had an employee threaten to resign if I didn't give them their increment in salary. I wrote the date on a piece of paper and "I resign (name of person)" on it and gave it to them with the pen and asked them to sign it. They didn't.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

Crow

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2012, 12:10:45 AM »
I think you have a valid point, but it still becomes a question on how best to handle un-fair treatment. Should people be allowed to act however they like if they're not being treated fairly? If the mods are being inconsistent, and we're bothered by it, shouldn't we point out those circumstances rather than getting personal with each other?

Again, for instance, when ER and I were arguing, a mod came in and told us BOTH to knock it off. So I did. I left the thread and didn't post again. ER just could NOT seem to do this. He kept posting, started directing his posts to people in a personal manner (he compared us to theists, I think) and wouldn't stop until he got the last word in (which he did).

If you have an issue with how some things are done here, I think that's valid, but I just really have a hard time feeling like he was a victim in all of this. ETA: Also, personally, I can't really think of another member who acted uncivil (got personally insulting with another poster) and wasn't reprimanded for it because of a mod's personal feelings. Maybe it happened, but I can't really think of any?

I'm not getting personal with anyone, I hope it doesn't come across that way. Nor do I think E_R was a victim as he would have got banned sooner or later but at least if it was for something similar to the example you highlighted then it would have been properly justified, rather than something that seemed incorrect and well out of proportion in the first instance and second an impulse decision that is against what other mods have said previously.
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DeterminedJuliet

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 12:15:12 AM »
No, I didn't mean you were getting personal  :). I meant ER (because I'm sure he did think he was getting treated unfairly).

Quote from: Crow
Nor do I think E_R was a victim as he would have got banned sooner or later but at least if it was for something similar to the example you highlighted then it would have been properly justified, rather than something that seemed incorrect and well out of proportion in the first instance and second an impulse decision that is against what other mods have said previously.

Yeah, I don't disagree.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 12:32:41 AM by DeterminedJuliet »
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

DeterminedJuliet

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Re: What's on your mind today?
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 12:16:32 AM »
Good night all. Off to bed. Don't burn the place down on my account  ;D

Haha, I've got to head off, too. I will have no part in HAF-burning ;D

...
... ...
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What? Is that because I've already responded to a bunch of this?
I can't help it, I have a chronic need to add my two cents.  :P
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.